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Apple Pay

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Re: Apple Pay

#181

Post by wjoe »

DGCA wrote: post #6

I really hope this doesn't end up fragmenting the NFC payments space. Only Apple Pay is accepted in one place, and only Google Wallet is accepted in another. Both of these technologies work with contactless card readers, let's just stick with that.

I'm hoping they stick to a standard that everyone else can use (ideally the existing ones we already have like PayPass).

I've had NFC on Android phones for almost 2 years now, but I've still never been able to use it in the UK. We have some contactless payment terminals now, but the only services that allow you to use NFC payments on your phone here are tied to specific banks/carriers, or only work on specific phones.

I'm hoping that Apple Pay will push more merchants and services to start accepting NFC payments in general.

Re: Apple Pay

#182

Post by BlakePetersen »

tfinniga wrote: post #127
BlakePetersen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't cause bloatware, Carriers and Handset makers do. One of the many consequences of OSS, people can fork and bloat to their heart's content. Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

Google doesn't write the bloatware, but its actions allow bloatware to exist on android in a few ways, as far as I understand. - Android has an open source version (that is, a version that is completely open source). Like you mentioned, this gives carriers and OEMs the freedom to do what they want, even fork and bloat. - Android has a mixed license version, where you get the full experience of the Google Play store,…

Silent Circle released the Blackphone it developed off a fork of Android. This policy has allowed for bloatware, yes, but it also allows for innovators to innovate unimpeded.

I have the choice to buy a phone without bloatware and I did. I don't know why others don't do the same and then blame the OS maker for allowing their open software to be open.

These policies also allow for cheaper phones to get into the hands of the less affluent. Not everyone can afford the new iPhone, and they would rather have a phone with a bit more bloatware if it cuts the cost of the phone down to something they can reasonably afford. I would consider that a noble endeavor on the part of Google. Instead of saying, "FUCK YOU CARRIERS/OEMS, YOU DO AS WE SAY!", it offered them a means of providing cheaper phones without decimating their bottom line. They can choose to strip out all the bloat and price it high or they can bloat it up and price it low, making up the cost from the recurring fees/ad rev those apps can generate.

The thing is, I have a choice as to what experience I want.

Re: Apple Pay

#183

Post by BlakePetersen »

MCRed wrote: post #177
BlakePetersen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't cause bloatware, Carriers and Handset makers do. One of the many consequences of OSS, people can fork and bloat to their heart's content. Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show? No, you don't recall correctly. iOS has had the ability to update via iTunes since it's very first release in 2007. iOS users have been able to update their devices regularly to the latest and the greatest without problems for many years, while on Android it's the exception rather than the rule. This includes iOS 7, which like previous and later releases work…

So one needs a computer with iTunes installed to update an iOS device? It doesn't do it over the air?

Also, the "update shit show" reference was toward the software that was updated, not the update process itself, regardless of the hardware/software needed to pull it off.

Source for the downvoters: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/10/17/apple-ios-7-pr...

Re: Apple Pay

#184

Post by DCKing »

tfinniga wrote: post #127
BlakePetersen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't cause bloatware, Carriers and Handset makers do. One of the many consequences of OSS, people can fork and bloat to their heart's content. Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

Google doesn't write the bloatware, but its actions allow bloatware to exist on android in a few ways, as far as I understand. - Android has an open source version (that is, a version that is completely open source). Like you mentioned, this gives carriers and OEMs the freedom to do what they want, even fork and bloat. - Android has a mixed license version, where you get the full experience of the Google Play store,…

There are no "two versions of Android". That's an unnecessary confusion of the situation.

There is Android, which is a complete open source operating system tailored for touchscreen devices. It is completely open source and in principle has no dependencies on any piece of propietary software to function. Android is not usually distributed with just its open source components, however.

There is Google Play Services. This a propietary set of applications and system services that interact with Google's cloud services. Since Google's cloud services are popular - most significantly the Google Play Store for Android apps - these services almost always come bundled with devices on the market. Android and Google Play Services together are also often called "Android" (even by Google itself) which is the cause of the confusion. There is a clear difference between the two, however.

Then there are further customizations in themeing, user interface components and applications made by vendors and carriers.

The problem of bloatware is that Google has only felt responsibility for Google Play Services; the other software on the system, including Android, was the responsibility of the carriers and the vendors. Android is developed by Google as an open source and popular foundation from which to provide its services - either from Android's web capabilities or from its bundled applications.

Re: Apple Pay

#185

Post by syncsynchalt »

BlakePetersen wrote: post #183
MCRed wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show? No, you don't recall correctly. iOS has had the ability to update via iTunes since it's very first release in 2007. iOS users have been able to update their devices regularly to the latest and the greatest without problems for many years, while on Android it's the exception rather than the rule. This includes iOS 7, which like previous and later releases work…

So one needs a computer with iTunes installed to update an iOS device? It doesn't do it over the air? Also, the "update shit show" reference was toward the software that was updated, not the update process itself, regardless of the hardware/software needed to pull it off. Source for the downvoters: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/10/17/apple-ios-7-pr...

It's updated without need for iTunes for the past several years, IIRC.

Re: Apple Pay

#186

Post by BlakePetersen »

ctz wrote: post #140
BlakePetersen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't cause bloatware, Carriers and Handset makers do. One of the many consequences of OSS, people can fork and bloat to their heart's content. Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

Google exercise control over the software shipped on all mainstream Android phones through Google Mobile Services licensing (GMS includes the Play Store, gmail, maps, GCM, etc.) These restrictions could include ones which prevent MNOs and OEMs from adding bloatware, but they don't.

These restrictions would stymie innovation as well as take the devices out of the hands of the less-affluent, no bueno.

Bloatware has some good it brings, this good just doesn't have an affect on me.

Similar to taxes, I pay a ton of them and don't really get anything back aside from so-so roads. Where someone who is in a bit worse spot sees a lot of benefits from those taxes. It's something I accept as necessary, but I still do everything I can to keep them as low as possible.

But I don't go around blaming the Federal gov't because California taxes me higher than Washington would. Instead of proposing the feds restrict what can and can't be taxed, I could just move to Washington. The choice is mine! FREEDOM FTW! ;P

Re: Apple Pay

#187

Post by swift »

chrischen wrote: post #143
bsimpson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Wallet was terrible because you had to unlock your phone and enter a PIN, making it instantly way more cumbersome than swiping a card. Since the iPhones that have NFC also have TouchID, they can authenticate you instantly without resorting to a PIN. If it works as advertised, it will be a huge improvement over Google Wallet. (I still think Square got closest to an ideal payment scheme with Pay with Square, whe…

That's not the real issue. The real issue is that it doesn't fulfill the promise of you not having to hold your cards anymore (unless you only shop at Walgreens).

In the short term, sure, but if there's sufficient uptake things might look different in a few years.

For me, it might not take much - just Walgreens, some supermarkets, and a decent number of local restaurants supporting this might be enough to allow me to leave my wallet at home on a typical workday. Ironically the one card I'd probably still need, my transit card (Clipper), I assume also uses NFC of some sort. It'd be nice if the new iPhone's NFC feature could support that as well.

Re: Apple Pay

#188

Post by cbhl »

swift wrote: post #187
chrischen wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the real issue. The real issue is that it doesn't fulfill the promise of you not having to hold your cards anymore (unless you only shop at Walgreens).

In the short term, sure, but if there's sufficient uptake things might look different in a few years. For me, it might not take much - just Walgreens, some supermarkets, and a decent number of local restaurants supporting this might be enough to allow me to leave my wallet at home on a typical workday. Ironically the one card I'd probably still need, my transit card (Clipper), I assume also uses NFC of some sort. It'…

Clipper uses a technology called "MiFare DESFire". I'm under the impression that mobile phones can read these, but can't emulate them for some reason. (But apparently they can emulate its predecessor, MiFare Classic, which is unencrypted?)

Re: Apple Pay

#189

Post by cstrat »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #176
iancarroll wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, Google Wallet never actually discloses your card. It uses a virtual MasterCard to complete the transaction.

The proxy card number doesn't change so why is this considered a feature? It discloses something which is as good as your backing real card number.

and i suspect you can cancel the proxy card, without impacting your normal card which may be on file for recurring payments elsewhere.

Re: Apple Pay

#190

Post by unsignedint »

ehhuang wrote: post #94
allegory wrote: post #5

What I want to know, having a contactless card, is what do you do when the machine isn't working. You can't swipe it or use the chip in this case. Then you're screwed. If you have to carry the card anyway to get around this, what's the point other than showing everyone you have an iPhone, which at least in London is a quick way to get cracked over the head.

what do you do now when the credit card machine isn't working? There's always going to be a point of failure.

Actually, if those card machines are out of order, merchants can use an old fashioned imprinter device so they can send it in to get paid for it...
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