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DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

dslr.dimakrasner.com

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Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#61

Post by krapp »

angersock wrote: post #58
k__ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they plan to add a JavaScript engine?

Why would you ruin a perfectly good browser with JS support? :|

Probably because most users would prefer that the sites they visit actually work.

Supporting other embedded languages might be nice, but of course, unless all the major browsers also support the same, sites would have to provide an alternative in javascript for everybody else.

Not supporting javascript at all when it's integrated so deeply into the web, when you will doubtless be able to simply turn it off if you want, seems unreasonable.

For better or worse, the web is becoming a platform for distributing javascript binaries which execute in the browser. Unlike most other platforms, however, at least you can turn it off or view the source or block parts of it if you like.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#62

Post by kbenson »

keenerd wrote: post #33
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #4

Nice, I remember being shown DSL and being amazed someone could make an OS that small. > DSLR's approach to security is different . It is possible to run as root without causing a global disaster. Is there any more information available on how this is achieved?

I can't speak for DSLR, but I can say why Puppy Linux runs as root without disaster. (Spent a couple of years writing utilities for them.) Basically you design the system so that root has no special powers. Imagine if all of your storage was write-once, like a CD-R. What damage could root do? Almost none. Maybe there is a union file system for /usr and /home. Disregard all changes to /usr, when you reboot a fresh /us…

> With some kernel patching you could simply hide the /dev node after the boot is done with it.

At some point we have to make the call on diminishing returns. It will always be possible for root to bork a system (without a rewrite of many, many utilities that rely on root permissiveness), it's just a matter of how hard we can make it to do that accidentally. To be clear, I think this work is very useful and appreciated though. As someone that spends almost all of every working day in terminals on remote systems, often as root, I applaud any effort to reduce catastrophic mistakes. Every time I have to rm -rf as root there's that little after-I-hit-enter-panic, where I have to assure myself I double checked and didn't accidentally just delete /bin. The root is protected from the errant rm mistake, but there's oh so many more ways to reduce a perfectly fine system to an unbooting heap of hardware.

> The root/user distinction places all your faith in octal permission bits. In some ways a properly designed run-as-root system is less risky, because the safeties are baked into the OS at a much deeper level. It is the difference between a dangerous machine having physical safety interlocks and paper-thin "for your safety" policies.

Give me both. Please.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#64

Post by barsonme »

krapp wrote: post #61
angersock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ruin a perfectly good browser with JS support? :|

Probably because most users would prefer that the sites they visit actually work. Supporting other embedded languages might be nice, but of course, unless all the major browsers also support the same, sites would have to provide an alternative in javascript for everybody else. Not supporting javascript at all when it's integrated so deeply into the web, when you will doubtless be able to simply turn it off if you wan…

Every site should be able to function normally without JS. Granted that doesn't necessarily hold true for web apps, but for regular sites they shouldn't lose functionality because somebody has JS disabled (or doesn't have it at all!)

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#65

Post by krapp »

barsonme wrote: post #64
krapp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because most users would prefer that the sites they visit actually work. Supporting other embedded languages might be nice, but of course, unless all the major browsers also support the same, sites would have to provide an alternative in javascript for everybody else. Not supporting javascript at all when it's integrated so deeply into the web, when you will doubtless be able to simply turn it off if you wan…

Every site should be able to function normally without JS. Granted that doesn't necessarily hold true for web apps, but for regular sites they shouldn't lose functionality because somebody has JS disabled (or doesn't have it at all!)

I agree with you. I have js disabled by default and every time I run up against a site that uses client-side templating I find it incredibly annoying - I understand the rationale behind it but it's still annoying how many things tend to break without javascript.

However, you can't design a browser around an expectation of what the web should be like.

And anyway, it could be worse. If there were no javascript we would all be complaining about the dominance of VBScript in the browser.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#66

Post by cFire »

cFire wrote: post #51
thomasjudge wrote: post #40

Are there any mirrors? The site is getting hn-dotted. It should not take 8hrs to download a 108M file

http://coolfire.insomnia247.nl/DSLR/ The md5sums for 3 of them don't seem to match what's on the DSLR page though. The one with a .md5sum file does match. Use others with caution for now.

Turns out the ones with incorrect md5sums are indeed older builds. All ISOs are being brought up to date as fast as it'll go.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#67

Post by Alupis »

mhd wrote: post #18

The small Linux distributions are an interesting alternate universe. Very hobbyist in some respects, as often it's mostly repackaging standard distro stuff, getting older software to compile, writing simple GUI scripts -- not exactly developing a semi-embedded Linux subset with state of the art tools. Very hackish. And I mean that in a good way…

If you do the Linux From Scratch book and follow the embedded track, you should wind up with a busybox based distro around 33MB's on disk, plus you will learn a LOT about how a distro does what it does. I highly recommend it.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#68

Post by chillingeffect »

scardine wrote: post #38
Eiriksmal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > DSLR's approach to security is different . It is possible to run as root without causing a global disaster. > Is there any more information available on how this is achieved? +1 to this remark, currently unanswered. Is the "NEVER RUN AS ROOT!" mantra from modern Linux practices, or has it been that way since the mid-90s? After nearly four years of using Fedoras, I'm getting better about remembering what operation…

Almost 20 years ago I typed "rm /lib" instead of "rm lib" by mistake. Kernel panic messages started to flash on the terminal and I felt butterflies on my stomach. It was a huge (at the time) Sun machine, took more than 12h to restore it. That is why I avoid running as root.

lol, we should have a thread about famous typos.

The other late evening, I typed "sudo pip uninstall pip" instead of "sudo pip uninstall pil" Not that bad, but i was on an outdated distro (13.04) and I couldn't apt-get pip back. :< It was time to move to 13.10 anyway.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#69

Post by jlarocco »

scardine wrote: post #38
Eiriksmal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > DSLR's approach to security is different . It is possible to run as root without causing a global disaster. > Is there any more information available on how this is achieved? +1 to this remark, currently unanswered. Is the "NEVER RUN AS ROOT!" mantra from modern Linux practices, or has it been that way since the mid-90s? After nearly four years of using Fedoras, I'm getting better about remembering what operation…

Almost 20 years ago I typed "rm /lib" instead of "rm lib" by mistake. Kernel panic messages started to flash on the terminal and I felt butterflies on my stomach. It was a huge (at the time) Sun machine, took more than 12h to restore it. That is why I avoid running as root.

Using Linux or OSX on a modern single user computer, the separation between root and non-root makes very little sense.

I don't care if I "rm -Rf /bin" because I can reinstall all of it in less than an hour. It's an inconvenience, but hardly the end of the world.

On the other hand, "rm $HOME/*" would be a huge pain in the ass, potentially losing personal data that I can't just "apt-get install _____" back.

It does make sense for shared computers, but not many people running OSX and desktop Linux are running on shared computers.

Re: DSLR – Damn Small Linux Remake

#70

Post by cFire »

cFire wrote: post #51
thomasjudge wrote: post #40

Are there any mirrors? The site is getting hn-dotted. It should not take 8hrs to download a 108M file

http://coolfire.insomnia247.nl/DSLR/ The md5sums for 3 of them don't seem to match what's on the DSLR page though. The one with a .md5sum file does match. Use others with caution for now.

Both 64 bit images are up to date now.
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