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A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

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Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#11

Post by crazypyro »

SloopJon wrote: post #3

Title should probably be changed from "We Don't Just Need More Women in Tech, We Need Fewer Assholes" to "A hilariously sad tale of gender bias." (Not sure if I should put a spoiler alert or something.) The author of a popular series of books on preparing for technical interviews was upset that, after talking about code for an hour, people assume that she's a recruiter, rather than a programmer. I'll try not to make…

>Is it at all possible that the perspective of someone who writes books like that comes off as recruiterish?

This was my first thought as well. As soon as she identified herself, I immediately understood how someone could write her off as a recruiter, based entirely on her body of public works. There are many people in the world that will judge someone by the books they wrote and immediately have an image in their mind about the author. It would be hard to overcome this inclination that certain people have within the space of an hour and it doesn't help when someone is especially suspicious because of your gender (Obviously this is the not-ok part). I'm more apt to believe that Gayle Laakmann McDowell has a slightly skewed viewpoint of being taken as a recruiter more often than the average female engineer.

This is not to say that female engineers do not have legitimate concerns. I think its helpful to look at the specific facts of this situation to understand the frustration Gayle Laakmann McDowell experiences.

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#14

Post by possibilistic »

oldmanjay wrote: post #4

if you think you can solve the problems of people being assholes, you haven't yet accepted that someone considers you an asshole too.

Are you sure that reverse mapping is universal?

I was going to go for a few anecdotal examples of people I would decidedly consider as counter-evidence to your claim: the Dalai Lama, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, ...

Then I realized that you're probably right. :(

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#15

Post by exelius »

To be fair, I looked at her website and she does kind of look like a recruiter. This is likely because being an attractive blonde female opens a lot of doors, and recruiting is a job where you need a lot of doors to open for you. It doesn't mean she's not a rockstar programmer (because once you look at her resume, she obviously is) but she does have a certain "look" that doesn't jive with the stereotype of a software developer. Fortunately, most of us learn early in our careers not to judge a book by its cover.

That said, the "asshole" in the article is a troll.

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#16

Post by ivraatiems »

possibilistic wrote: post #8

Reading anecdotes like this makes me so disappointed in my gender. Why do some people marginalize other groups so eagerly? I see so much "bro culture" in our field, and it feels inescapable. Every time I experience it, I literally cringe. I'm not even a party to being singled out; I can't imagine what it must be like to have this garbage directed at you. The sad thing is, I used to be picked on and ostracized by thes…

I hate to break it to you, but it'll never not be an issue. Humans stereotype. It's a natural function for us. It may not be as much of an issue on a specific topic (race, gender, sexuality, etc.), but it will never not be an issue.

Also, you probably do it too. That's okay - we all do. The trick that people haven't learned is not letting their automatic beliefs have overt influence on their actions.

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#17

Post by ddebernardy »

bluetshirt wrote: post #12
Mikeb85 wrote: post #2

We need fewer assholes in every industry. It's not like tech is unique...

No, but we have an opportunity to be a leader and not a follower. To be on the right side of history, so to speak.

For that, the first step should probably be to have more women in STEM classes so they can get recruited in these industries to begin with.

I've no idea how it currently is, but back when I was studying the ratio was something like 90% male in some curriculums. (There were exceptions, e.g. chemistry or biology, but they were rather rare.) Has this changed since?

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#18

Post by sp332 »

jordigh wrote: post #5
SloopJon wrote: post #3

Title should probably be changed from "We Don't Just Need More Women in Tech, We Need Fewer Assholes" to "A hilariously sad tale of gender bias." (Not sure if I should put a spoiler alert or something.) The author of a popular series of books on preparing for technical interviews was upset that, after talking about code for an hour, people assume that she's a recruiter, rather than a programmer. I'll try not to make…

> Title should probably be changed from "We Don't Just Need More Women in Tech, We Need Fewer Ass holes" to "A hilariously sad tale of gender bias." Yes, please. While I agree with the sentiment of the editorialised title, I think the original title should be reflected here.

It's true, women can be a source of gender bias as well. Many girls are turned away from computing by women who think of it as a guys' field. And beyond that, just looking at a woman at a tech conference and thinking "oh I wonder who she's here with" can happen to anyone. I can't find the anecdote now but it happened to a woman who had just given a speech on women in tech! It's a really hard, pervasive bias.

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#19

Post by ekr »

>"woman who wrote the #2 Computer Science book on Amazon, about coding and technical interview skills"

Computer Science has absolutely nothing to do with either coding or interviews, it's a subfield of mathematics.

Re: A hilariously sad tale of gender bias

#20

Post by pit »

turingfail wrote: post #10
colmvp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more importantly, anytime you are on an online discussion board with anonymous members, you're always going to encounter assholes.

You find the same people everywhere, but they are only honest when they are allowed to be.

"I think anonymity is authenticity, it allows you to share in a completely unvarnished, unfiltered, raw way and I think that's something that's extremely valuable." -- moot
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