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Exploding Offers Suck

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#151

Post by fecak »

bcbrown wrote: post #119
fecak wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure anyone 'should' be offended by an exploding offer. There are lots of potential factors at play. You only see people talking about exploding offers of employment when the window is relatively small - no one bats an eye when given 45 days to accept a job offer, as that should give plenty of time to find other competitive offers. It's those 3-5 day figures where candidates tend to think they smell a rat. No…

> We often see candidates trying to expedite the offer process in order to receive offers around the same time. As a candidate, what would be the best tactics to achieve that objective? Say I have 6-8 candidate employers, from mature startup to enterprise in size, and I'm moderately senior. My approach would be to do the phone screens with them all, and narrow it down to about 4 companies to interview with in person,…

To maximize the chances of offers coming in around the same time, I generally suggest that candidates stagger applications as a first tactic. Generally speaking, we expect smaller companies or firms with lower levels of bureaucracy (not always the case) to move quicker, so one should apply to those last since they can usually be more agile.

Once in the interview process, you can try to expedite some interview processes while slowing down others. So you might ask one company to push an interview up and another to push an interview back. Once an offer is about to be presented, asking questions can help delay a bit as well - you could ask all your questions at once in an email if you want a speedy reply, and you could ask questions in a live meeting or call (that requires scheduling) if you want to buy yourself a few days.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#152

Post by fecak »

dmourati wrote: post #130
fecak wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be some highly specific situations where a two day exploding offer could be necessary for the business. That in itself doesn't make the offer unacceptable, and that also doesn't necessarily warrant a 'steer clear' warning for readers without more context. I wouldn't judge this company based on a single known two day exploding offer without further details.

I would and I do judge on this single episode. In my opinion, this type of behavior is abusive. I can understand why a recruiter might take the company's side.

If you had ever worked with me you'd know how protective I am of my candidates, sometimes to my own detriment financially. Companies pay the bills, but when they act poorly I don't defend them - I try to correct their bad behavior and explain to them why it will hurt them in the long run.

I would encourage any client that a policy of having all offers explode in 2 days would be bad from a PR perspective and probably result in losing good talent.

If it happened once, and the company had a strong business justification, I personally would not think that this singular action would reflect the company's overall business tactics. Again, it would have to be a good reason - perhaps one that even protects another candidate or current company employee.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#153

Post by _archon_ »

photojosh wrote: post #124
27182818284 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those curious, This American Life did a whole podcast on the end-of-month car sales thing. It was quite fascinating and really does exist. One of the more interesting points in the entire thing came in the first minute where they point out that things like the end-of-month sales impact the entire US economy because it has to do with auto sales, and GM and steel working and etc follow up the chain. Weird to think…

Anyone know if this is true for other countries? Specifically Australia? I'm in the market for a new car... and not too fussy about what I get.

This is off topic, but I would like to appeal to your human sense of dignity. There are a number of cars available to the Australian buyer which can't be readily had by consumers in much of the rest of the world. You can buy Lapanese-spec sports cars from Nissan. You can buy 4 wheel drive Mazdas. Most importantly, you can buy a ute. Utes, or car-bodied vehicles with a pickup bed, are extremely practical. You can commute etc. in a low, safe, fun vehicle, yet have significant cargo capacity. This market never took off in the Americas due to our love affair with pickup trucks. Modern utes can be had in incredibly sporty or economical models, too. Most utes can't be legally imported to America, since no crash safety tests etc. have been done.

I suppose what I'm driving at is to please consider buying a ute (like a Ford Falcon pickup with a big v8), because there are starving drivers in America.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#154

Post by smcl »

sama wrote: post #3
ivankirigin wrote: post #2

Is this a change for YC? YC previously required getting an answer the day you're accepted because "you have all the information". So this is an update to allow people time to decide, right? I always found the justification of having all the information a bit self centered. Founders have all the information... about YC, but not about other options. That said, as a YC alum, I think you should almost certainly say yes i…

only in the early years of YC did we require an answer right away. as much time as the founders want has been the unofficial policy for awhile, but i thought it was time to share it.

It seems a wee bit disingenuous that YC are claiming a sort of moral high ground over other companies who are doing exactly what YC were doing.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#155

Post by kyteland »

mikedmiked wrote: post #149
DanBlake wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im sure a ton of the companies who apply to YC and dont get in are still Grade A. But you have to trust YC knows what they are doing, and the A+++ companies will be picked over before they hit second or third tier. You have to remember that investing in companies is a lottery game. Most angels/vc's profits are made on that 1 in a million company with a 1000x return. If YC wants access to truly the best companies, the…

> 1 in a million company with a 1000x return Sounds like a terrible expected ROI ;)

Not if you can selectively winnow through and take the 100 best. Then it's a guaranteed home run.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#156

Post by rjf1331 »

I agree with the concept for the most part, but have a few gripes.

First, the desk space argument is very real. Y Combinator takes 60+ companies and has no real space constraints since they do not offer office space. Other accelerators take far fewer companies and do have office space, so they need to know ahead of time 1) that their batch will be full and 2) that each company has passed their own due diligence process.

Also, as with term sheets, founders can take their offer from one accelerator and shop it to others. It's happened before (with people I know), who take an offer from one accelerator and use it to trigger FOMO from the other.

Couldn't an accelerator just position it's start date before Y Combinator's decision date, and therefore not need an exploding offer but have the same effect?

Exploding offers should be reasonable, and I'm not against being fair to founders. But doesn't democratizing this essentially involve accelerators colluding to have the same offer/acceptance date?

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#157

Post by vxNsr »

rickdale wrote: post #56

This is a tactic I see used on the micro level on Shark Tank where usually Mark Cuban will be like "25 second shot clock, you gotta decide right now." Being a Shark Tank and Dragons Den addict (both Canada and UK versions) I can say the greatest difference between the US version and the others is this tactic. I have never seen any of the Canadian or UK investors do anything remotely similar. Usually they are more imp…

Just a point about Shark Tank and similar shows: the actual meeting is a lot longer than the ~6 minutes that they show you. Some go on for hours, and they just cut to the interesting bits, so that 30 sec shot clock thing is often just theatrics, they've been discussing things for a while and know before whether they're gonna say yes.

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#158

Post by maxbrown »

pmarca wrote: post #139
davemel37 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of SharkTank where Mark Cuban would make a shot-clock offer and give 30 seconds for someone to accept the offer. Here's the thing. Mark Cuban can walk away from any deal, at anytime and not feel like he is missing out. So, while you are certainly getting the shorter end of the stick with an exploding offer...It's usually coming from a place where the person making the offer has enough leverage to be o…

Mark is performing for television. The only appropriate response to a 30 second offer is "f--- off".

I have an equal distaste for exploding offers, but I'm not sure this will get the desired result :)

Re: Exploding Offers Suck

#159

Post by maxbrown »

vxNsr wrote: post #157
rickdale wrote: post #56

This is a tactic I see used on the micro level on Shark Tank where usually Mark Cuban will be like "25 second shot clock, you gotta decide right now." Being a Shark Tank and Dragons Den addict (both Canada and UK versions) I can say the greatest difference between the US version and the others is this tactic. I have never seen any of the Canadian or UK investors do anything remotely similar. Usually they are more imp…

Just a point about Shark Tank and similar shows: the actual meeting is a lot longer than the ~6 minutes that they show you. Some go on for hours, and they just cut to the interesting bits, so that 30 sec shot clock thing is often just theatrics, they've been discussing things for a while and know before whether they're gonna say yes.

I learned this recently, the most interesting part of which was that the founders stand silent in front of the investors for at least a few minutes while the lighting and sounds and such are set.

I wonder, don't you think the shot clock offer is real even though they've been talking longer than we've seen?

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