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Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

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Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#51
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Botnet.

As I stated. The computation power needed to break SHA-1 is higher then attacking RSA. So if you are financially motivated attacking RSA has a higher ROI.

While true, "There's something more profitable to attack at the moment" seems like a lousy way to handle security.

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's What . The headline hints at Why , but never delivers.

This entire article is about Why. Read the "An attack on SHA-1 feels plenty viable to me" section for the most info.

It's a roundup of last week's news, and (hopefully) better all-around explanation and background for people with less technical knowledge. It also points people to another tool I made, https://shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com, to actually do the SHA-1 check.

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#53
post #29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Https is to prevent wiretapping and man-in-the-middle attacks. The problem now is even you established HTTPS connection, the weak SHA-1 encryption will not protect you.

The SHA1 vulnerability being contemplated here affects only the establishment of an HTTPS connection; the attack scenario involves obtaining a forged certificate.

That's an especially pedantic correction, as it does not impact the meaning of the statement.

s/the weak SHA-1 encryption/the weakened SHA-1 hash used to verify the certificate that's used to authenticate the encrypted connection/

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#54
post #25

The issue here is old clients... Does anyone know how old clients would handle SHA-2 certs, would they just get a warning saying the site is insecure but still be able to visit the site over an encrypted connection or do they break completely... I guess - I'll have to run a few tests this afternoon and see how windows XP performs.

Windows XP will need Service Pack 3 to support SHA2 certs.

Windows Server 2003 will require a couple manual hotfixes to get SHA2 support.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/pki/archive/2010/09/30/sha2-and-w...

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#56

I'd like to see them gradually downgrade all non-PFS connections. Non-PFS connections should be considered medium-to-highly vulnerable, and shouldn't receive a green icon in browsers. Unfortunately, they've just recommended everyone to use "2048-bit keys" when they announced the HTTPS Google ranking policy. A lot of developers won't understand the difference between a 2048-bit RSA key and a 256-bit ECC key, so they'l…

This seems to be a case of a slightly unfortunate wording.

Google calls for the use of 2048-bit key certificates, a very reasonable demand. In the forward secure use case, the certificate key is only used for authentication. Using, say, ECDHE_RSA as your key exchange mechanism allows for small but secure elliptic curve keys (EC), forward security (DHE) and uses the certificate's RSA key for initial authentication (RSA).

Certificates can actually use ECDSA keys, and some companies will support this (Symantec and CloudFlare off the top of my head), but I'm not exactly sure about browser support. The chief advantage, as far as I know and assuming no new breaks in RSA, is a strong reduction in certificate file size (256-bit vs 3k RSA equivalent), not forward security.

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#57
post #53
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SHA1 vulnerability being contemplated here affects only the establishment of an HTTPS connection; the attack scenario involves obtaining a forged certificate.

That's an especially pedantic correction, as it does not impact the meaning of the statement. s/the weak SHA-1 encryption/the weakened SHA-1 hash used to verify the certificate that's used to authenticate the encrypted connection/

It is, you're right. It's a hobbyhorse of mine, though, because SHA1 (and MD5) appear in TLS ciphersuites as MAC components, and those uses are not known to be vulnerable at all.

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I stated. The computation power needed to break SHA-1 is higher then attacking RSA. So if you are financially motivated attacking RSA has a higher ROI.

While true, "There's something more profitable to attack at the moment" seems like a lousy way to handle security.

I never said moving away from SHA-1 was irrelevant. I was simply stating that they were overestimating how common the FLAME attack could be pulled off.

Flame like Stuxnet are state of the art. Highly funded state of the art. A lot of security researchers look at these things and simply say, "Are you shitting me?!"

Call me optimistic but I highly doubt we'll be uncovering a new stuxnet every single year.

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#59
post #18
post #13

Would be interesting to know how this affects Git version control, which has SHA-1 at its core.

I assume you would need to forge a meaningful (and potentially harmful) commit with the same SHA-1 as an existing one to do arm. That's probably more difficult than forging an SSL certificate (since the actual contents of the blob are more constrained that the certificate file, probably). I'm also not really sure what would happen if commits made after the "compromised" one happened to conflict with it but I'm pretty…

I'd think the content of the blob is less constrained, because you can put whatever padding fluff you need at the end of the commit message to adjust the sha1 of the commit. To cause harm, you'd include the trojanized code in a different file which your colliding commit blob references. (So, you'd need to include multiple blobs, but only the commit-message one needs to collide with an existing one)

A collision in commit hashes would mean you could no longer trust a signed tag, for example.

Look up the old stripe-ctf "gitcoin" challenge and you'll see it really is quite easy to meddle with commit hashes :)

Re: Why Google is Hurrying the Web to Kill SHA-1

#60
So where is the fully automated solution for rotating certificates?

I've been looking for a CA who will provide an API to send the cert request, an easy way to prove the domain ownership which doesn't involve SMTP, and the signed cert handed straight back from the API, but haven't found it.

So far the most I've been able to streamline my certificate requests is to automate generating the CSR, skip setting the MX record, just bind SMTP to www.domain.com, get the validation email at 'admin@www.domain.com' and auto-forward to my actual email address... so it's mostly automated, but I still have to copy/paste the cert request string into the CA's webform, click the 'Approve' link in the forwarded DV mail, and then copy/paste the final cert from inside email back to the shell where it can finish the import.

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