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Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

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Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#31

Post by jacquesm »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'contested' area is completely free from planes right now.

Ok, if by Russia, you mean Moscow and by eastern Ukraine, you mean south-eastern Ukraine, apart from Crimea, then you are right. Apart from M99551 from Motor Sich Airlines, which is headed to Kharkiv. edit - actually it looks as though it is going past Kharkiv as it is still climbing.

I thought that Snowden was in Moscow, I could definitely be wrong about that. And yes, 'eastern Ukraine': the contested area.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#32

Post by lotsofmangos »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
lotsofmangos wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, if by Russia, you mean Moscow and by eastern Ukraine, you mean south-eastern Ukraine, apart from Crimea, then you are right. Apart from M99551 from Motor Sich Airlines, which is headed to Kharkiv. edit - actually it looks as though it is going past Kharkiv as it is still climbing.

I thought that Snowden was in Moscow, I could definitely be wrong about that. And yes, 'eastern Ukraine': the contested area.

That word 'conceivable'. I do not think it means what you think it means. Or eastern Ukraine for that matter. That is normally anywhere east of the Dnieper river.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#33

Post by dan_bk »

fh973 wrote: post #8

Switzerland has a tradition of being a prison of choice. http://www.nysun.com/arts/drrenmatts-prison-of-paradox/48164...

At the same time, no EU country has the courage to do what Switzerland is discussing now (Germany's Merkel has even publicly refused to even discuss the matter). This is one reason why it is also a good thing to NOT have every country join the EU - centralize power and it becomes very interesting as a target for corruption.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#34

Post by jacquesm »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #32
jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that Snowden was in Moscow, I could definitely be wrong about that. And yes, 'eastern Ukraine': the contested area.

That word 'conceivable'. I do not think it means what you think it means. Or eastern Ukraine for that matter. That is normally anywhere east of the Dnieper river.

Either you missed out on the last couple of months news coverage somehow or you are deliberately being obtuse in order to score 'points'. Not sure which.

Anyway, these days when people are talking about the Eastern Ukraine in terms of an area that you should not be flying planes over they are not quibbling over facts of geography but in relation to the ongoing attempt at secession in the Eastern part of the Ukraine. If you wish to have it specified by google map coordinates, lists of cities, an animated map of the moving frontier then I could probably comply with the demand but it isn't worth the trouble.

Currently 'don't fly your civilian aircraft over Eastern Ukraine' is something that you could take either as person informed about current events or as a cartographer.

By your standards we don't have a 'middle America', there is no 'eastern Cyprus' and so on.

It's contested territory at best right now, quite possibly at some point in the future it won't be called Ukraine at all.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#35

Post by gambiting »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
gambiting wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but then again what was Morales going to do about it? Get a little bit angry? That decision was literally consequence-free. I highly doubt anyone would order Putin's plane to land anywhere though. Just like no one would order the air force one to land forcibly, it's just not done.

'land or we'll start World War III'.

Really? Like what, launch nukes because Russia doesn't want to hand over Snowden? Come on, that's just ridiculous. If Putin sent his plane(or went himself on official business) to Switzerland, absolutely no one could do anything about it.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#36

Post by lotsofmangos »

jacquesm wrote: post #34
lotsofmangos wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That word 'conceivable'. I do not think it means what you think it means. Or eastern Ukraine for that matter. That is normally anywhere east of the Dnieper river.

Either you missed out on the last couple of months news coverage somehow or you are deliberately being obtuse in order to score 'points'. Not sure which. Anyway, these days when people are talking about the Eastern Ukraine in terms of an area that you should not be flying planes over they are not quibbling over facts of geography but in relation to the ongoing attempt at secession in the Eastern part of the Ukraine.…

Look, there are still commercial carriers flying across the Karkiv oblast. Karkiv is where the mayor was shot in the back by a sniper and people are currently using grenade launchers in town. It is contested.

By my standards, eastern Cyprus is the eastern parts of Cyprus and middle America is the people in America who share a conservative rural culture, though where they live is almost incidental, much like middle England.

And I have been reading the news, however I do not rely on it if looking for actual facts about where commercial carriers are flying.

This is because journalists are generally really lazy and unreliable for anything other than a broad brush view of things, a view which you are now regurgitating unprocessed.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#37

Post by jacquesm »

gambiting wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'land or we'll start World War III'.

Really? Like what, launch nukes because Russia doesn't want to hand over Snowden? Come on, that's just ridiculous. If Putin sent his plane(or went himself on official business) to Switzerland, absolutely no one could do anything about it.

We're in violent agreement here. It was merely an illustration of what kind of ultimatum would be required to get that plane to land and I really don't see that happening. So I think if there is a formal offer of asylum by Switzerland and Russia lets him go un-opposed (which I assume they will) then he will arrive in Switzerland.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#38

Post by AJ007 »

saosebastiao wrote: post #25

This is a major political power maneuver. As long as Snowden is in Russia, Obama can control the messaging. He is, after all, cooperating with an important physical threat to, if not outright enemy of the United States. Asylum in Switzerland, along with all the mental associations with its neutrality and sovereignty, puts Obama in a much trickier position. Probably not enough to turn the tide, but it forces Obama to…

Snowden leaving the country would provide good timing for Russia to de-escalate their Western relations. On the other hand this could be years out. I suspect Putin may rather cut off the gas while waiting for another major economic contraction and debt default cycle breaking up at least pieces of the EU.

Switzerland now has grudges against the US for destroying their bank secrecy. If Bloomberg news is to be believed, both capital and humans are leaving the country as a result.

Re: Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

#39

Post by eps »

tptacek wrote: post #20
EthanHeilman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swiss embassy in Moscow, Russia[0] is Swiss territory. This is how Julian Assange got asylum as well. [0]: http://www.eda.admin.ch/moscow

Not that it impacts the point you're trying to make, but it's a misconception that embassies are the territories of the countries they represent. The Swiss embassy in Moscow is Russian sovereign territory.

Ha! Indeed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission#Extraterrito...
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