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Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

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Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#51

Post by stinos »

UrMomReadsHN wrote: post #43
stinos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, just an anecdote: back in 'the days' I used amphetamines (or whatever was supposed to be in the speed I bought from my dealer) for a couple of months, then quit it because it's disastrous for your body and switched to Ritalin for another couple of months because the amphetamine addiction was hard to cope with. And because Ritalin has very, very similar effects, including the side-effects like tremors and teeth…

What dose of Ritalin did you take to have such side effects?

Something like 50mg/day IIRC

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#52

Post by hoggle »

refurb wrote: post #6

A quick read of the abstract indicates that loss of neurons only occurred in mice at the higher dose (10 mg/kg). Typical doses of Ritalin in kids (6+ years old) is 5-10 mg per day in two doses.[1] 6 year old weigh about 20 kg (50th percentile) so each dose is ~0.25 mg/kg (5/20). Even if you double the dose, it's 0.50 mg/kg, below the 1 mg/kg where the study saw no neuron loss. To get to 10 mg/kg, kids would have to t…

Maybe I read the abstract differently or don't fully understand it but its conclusion doesn't seem to align with yours, right?

"Collectively, our results suggest that chronic MPH usage in mice at doses spanning the therapeutic range in humans, especially at prolonged higher doses, has long-term neurodegenerative consequences."

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#53

Post by xkcd-sucks »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #22
xkcd-sucks wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional Parkinson's symptoms (problems w/ voluntary movement) only show up after 80-90% of dopaminergic neurons are gone. That's a whole lot of dead cells. Symptoms of pre-Parkinsonian dopaminergic neuron loss are (anhedonia, depression, psychiatric weirdness without movement disorder) are just beginning to be described, and it's very likely that stimulant use will be shown to cause pre-Parkinsonian symptoms in h…

So the mice showed 80% loss after what? One or two years of chronic use? How come people have taken this for twenty years and more and we didn't notice the Parkinson epidemic?

The mice showed a ~20% loss at high dose.

At the low dose, the mice showed no significant loss but were vulnerable to a sub-threshold dose of a toxin and toxin+MPH mice showed a ~20% loss.

This is in figure 1, and in the discussion. Exactly what behavioral effects result from a 20% loss of DA neurons is still an open question.

So, the clinical implication is that people on methylphenidate might be vulnerable to things (rotenone, heavy metals, etc) which aren't toxic to "normal" people.

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#54

Post by sabarn01 »

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #42
sabarn01 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.

Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?

As every one else said, but I will add a couple of notes.

ADD is part of who I am its just not very compatible with current work environments. I don't like to feel drugged all the time and I know that i'm ok with out being medicated.

I have developed sufficient coping skills as an adult to enable me to choose when I need to be medicated and when I don't.

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#55

Post by hoggle »

sabarn01 wrote: post #54
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?

As every one else said, but I will add a couple of notes. ADD is part of who I am its just not very compatible with current work environments. I don't like to feel drugged all the time and I know that i'm ok with out being medicated. I have developed sufficient coping skills as an adult to enable me to choose when I need to be medicated and when I don't.

I just wanted to thank you for still answering on this thread. Your sharing of your experiences is very much welcome, I've only been on Ritalin for over a month and already feel exactly as you describe it. Still, I'm asking myself if you couldn't also harm your wiring by having this on/off thing going on (I'm currently on 30mg Ritalin LA which presumably is a rather high dosage). I've always been more interested into computers so this brain thing is kind of new to me - a blacker kind of box than it already is so to say :)

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#56

Post by hoggle »

For anybody returning to this thread, here are some other discussions around this study I found on the web (thank you duckduckgo :)

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/61161-methylphenidate-n...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/1yd5bf/methylphe...

http://www.plosone.org/annotation/listThread.action?root=539...

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-long-term-effects-of-Adde...

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And some studies suggesting other adverse neurodegenerative effects of MPH as well:

"Methylphenidate treatment induces oxidative stress in young rat brain"

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006899306...

"Methylphenidate induces lipid and protein damage in prefrontal cortex, but not in cerebellum, striatum and hippocampus of juvenile rats."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22968482

Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice

#57

Post by sabarn01 »

hoggle wrote: post #55
sabarn01 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As every one else said, but I will add a couple of notes. ADD is part of who I am its just not very compatible with current work environments. I don't like to feel drugged all the time and I know that i'm ok with out being medicated. I have developed sufficient coping skills as an adult to enable me to choose when I need to be medicated and when I don't.

I just wanted to thank you for still answering on this thread. Your sharing of your experiences is very much welcome, I've only been on Ritalin for over a month and already feel exactly as you describe it. Still, I'm asking myself if you couldn't also harm your wiring by having this on/off thing going on (I'm currently on 30mg Ritalin LA which presumably is a rather high dosage). I've always been more interested into…

I would have been kicked out of school with out ritalin so there wasn't much option when I started taking it at 9. You have to judge for yourself as an adult if the costs out weight the risks.
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