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Al-Jazari

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Re: Al-Jazari

#41

Post by nraf »

nayefc wrote: post #25
KhalilK wrote: post #8

I remember learning all about Al Jazari (and all of the other Muslim scientists, philosophers and doctors at that time) back in primary school. As an Arab I can't help but feel both proud, of such achievements, and yet so sad, because of the state of decline the Islamic contribution to the scientific advancement has known.

Once we replace "Islamic contribution" with "Arab contribution", we will move forward.

This isn't a very fair or accurate statement given that many of the greatest scholars of Islam weren't Arab (a large number were Persian for example). There were multiple centres of scientific endeavor throughout Islamic history including (but not limited to) Baghdad, Damascus, Al-Andalus (i.e. Islamic Spain) and Africa.

Much of the Islamic scholarship at the time revolved around gaining a greater understanding of the creation of God as a means to draw nearer to God.

In addition a lot of scholars in the major Islamic centres weren't even Muslim. For example, the conquest of the Iberian Peninsula (welcomed by the local Jewish population) ushered in a Jewish Golden Age which produced Maimonides, one of the greatest Jewish scholars of the time.

Re: Al-Jazari

#42

Post by Solarsail »

GuiA wrote: post #33
dvdhsu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading Why Nations Fail , recently, and came across a similar sentiment: > While the Egyptians were building the great pyramids of Giza around 2500 BC, the English constructed their most famous ancient monument, the stone circle at Stonehenge. Not bad by English standards, but not even large enough to have housed one of the ceremonial boats buried at the foot of King Khufu’s pyramid. England continued to lag b…

You can only connect the dots looking backward. How do we know that our society won't be viewed 500 years from now the same way we view the Roman empire or Egyptian kingdom?

Would that be a bad thing? Unless you're referring to the current 'golden age' ending, wouldn't it be a good thing if modern day achievements are still that well regarded 5 centuries from now?

(I suppose you could say that the current phase of western civilization falling, eventually, would be a bad thing. But isn't it inevitable that any single civilization will end, eventually?)

Re: Al-Jazari

#43

Post by tidderton »

zyngaro wrote: post #34
tidderton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what, it is. Also, Mohammad was a misogynist pedophile warlord. Ideas from medieval ages have no place in the 21st century. (Down-votes from PC folks welcome)

What a hateful comment. How can one judge a man who lived in the 7th century by today's standards?! Objectively speaking, a warlord he might have been but a misogynist and a pedophile surely he wasn't.

Because he is the perfect example to follow for all humans according to Muslims?

He definitely was a misogynist and a pedophile according to Islamic texts. Would you like some links?

Re: Al-Jazari

#44

Post by dang »

tidderton wrote: post #43
zyngaro wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a hateful comment. How can one judge a man who lived in the 7th century by today's standards?! Objectively speaking, a warlord he might have been but a misogynist and a pedophile surely he wasn't.

Because he is the perfect example to follow for all humans according to Muslims? He definitely was a misogynist and a pedophile according to Islamic texts. Would you like some links?

Please stop.

Re: Al-Jazari

#45

Post by nraf »

arjn wrote: post #20

Interesting, thanks for posting. I new about semi-automatons created for the Turkish rulers for entertainment but not about Al Jazari. I would like to add that the Persian, Arab and Turkish empires benefited greatly from Chinese, Indian, Roman and Greek math, technology and science that had been developed much earlier. This frequently gets glossed over or completely ignored.

I wouldn't say it gets completely ignored. Pretty much everything I read about the subjects mentions how the Muslims translated into Arabic, expanded upon, corrected and were influenced by the work of earlier cultures.

Re: Al-Jazari

#46

Post by arjn »

nraf wrote: post #41
nayefc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once we replace "Islamic contribution" with "Arab contribution", we will move forward.

This isn't a very fair or accurate statement given that many of the greatest scholars of Islam weren't Arab (a large number were Persian for example). There were multiple centres of scientific endeavor throughout Islamic history including (but not limited to) Baghdad, Damascus, Al-Andalus (i.e. Islamic Spain) and Africa. Much of the Islamic scholarship at the time revolved around gaining a greater understanding of th…

Maimonides was Jewish.

Re: Al-Jazari

#47

Post by nraf »

arjn wrote: post #46
nraf wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a very fair or accurate statement given that many of the greatest scholars of Islam weren't Arab (a large number were Persian for example). There were multiple centres of scientific endeavor throughout Islamic history including (but not limited to) Baghdad, Damascus, Al-Andalus (i.e. Islamic Spain) and Africa. Much of the Islamic scholarship at the time revolved around gaining a greater understanding of th…

Maimonides was Jewish.

Sorry, typo. Had meant to write Jewish. That was sorta the point of the sentence. :)

Re: Al-Jazari

#48

Post by nraf »

yareally wrote: post #39
Mikeb85 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't Arabs...

Arab can be a very generic and overly used term in many conversations. Please define who you think are Arabs. Also the link this whole thread is about on wikipedia is about a Scientist from Turkey, not Arabia. > "Badi'al-Zaman Abū al-'Izz ibn Ismā'īl ibn al-Razāz al-Jazarī (1136–1206) (Arabic: بديع الزمان أَبُو اَلْعِزِ بْنُ إسْماعِيلِ بْنُ الرِّزاز الجزري‎) was a Muslim polymath: a scholar, inventor, mechanical engi…

Cizre is in modern-day Turkey very close to the current borders of both Iraq and Syria. A person born at that time and in that region could be from a multitude of different races.

Re: Al-Jazari

#49

Post by walterbell »

vdfs wrote: post #22

The Banū Mūsā brothers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban%C5%AB_M%C5%ABs%C4%81 "The most popular of their publications was the Kitāb al-Ḥiyal (The Tricks Book), which was mostly the work of Aḥmad, the middle brother, was a book filled with one hundred mechanical devices. There were some real practical inventions in the book including a lamp that would mechanically dim, alternating fountains, and a clamshell grab. Eigh…

We need vcs/git fork graphs for historical inventions and improvements, including tracking of multiple "upstream" candidates when origins are disputed. HN members in different cultures could help curate the dependency graphs on github.

Related: Project Gitenberg, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8214564

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