Live data from Hacker News

OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

nytimes.com

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#11
The spookiest thing is not the data or the experiments, but the off the cuff conclusions.

For example: > As a group, for instance, Latino men rated Latinas as 13 percent more attractive than the average for the site, while they rated African-American women 25 percent less attractive.

That is an insane generalization going on.

What metric are we using to determine this? Is it possible that people who tend to participate in the rating of the looks of potential mates are more inclined to align with race? Not purely Latino men. Which is an enormous initial generalization to be making at the outset.

> Witness the actions of 35-year-old heterosexual men on OkCupid. These men typically search for women between the ages of 24 and 40, Mr. Rudder reports, yet in practice they rarely contact anyone over 29.

Again on this one, was age the only possible metric that caused the under 30 to be contacted more by 35 year old men? There isn't anything else that might be different about an under 30 profile that causes more communication to occur?

This is the actual scary stuff to be publicly releasing as real science. Just as the general public is ill informed about the experiments going on, they are also not aware of what metrics are used to determine these results. In my experience, many of these metrics are not as concrete as the appear and full of pushing the data to fit a narrative etc.

Combine that with the fact that most of this data is proprietary and private with no way to be peer reviewed. Dangerous stuff.

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#12
post #5

I really enjoyed reading OkTrends posts, but having near radio silence for three years (apart from one post last July) followed by a full-on PR blitz for a new book (comes out on Tuesday) makes me a little sad. This piece almost makes it sound as if Rudder has been blogging based on OkCupid results this whole time... and if you go to the OkTrends site, you see huge inline placement for Rudder's new book.

OKTrends went dormant when OKCupid was sold to the company that operates match.com. I don't know what Rudder's involvement with OKCupid was after that, but he was no longer one of the owners. He might have still worked there, but kept his blog silent under pressure from management.

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#13
post #6

Might be cool stuff they're doing but it doesn't make it any less unethical no matter how much they try to whitewash it. This is slippery slope stuff

Using aggregate data (ie. not any individual's personal data) about interactions to study societal behaviour is unethical? On a website that you willingly sign up for, no doubt with disclaimers about how they're allowed to use your data? As far as slippery slopes go, Facebook crossed that line quite a while ago...

When you publicly disclose the results, without any way for the data to be peer reviewed? Absolutely.

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#14
post #11

The spookiest thing is not the data or the experiments, but the off the cuff conclusions. For example: > As a group, for instance, Latino men rated Latinas as 13 percent more attractive than the average for the site, while they rated African-American women 25 percent less attractive. That is an insane generalization going on. What metric are we using to determine this? Is it possible that people who tend to participa…

Why is it "dangerous"?

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#15
post #11

The spookiest thing is not the data or the experiments, but the off the cuff conclusions. For example: > As a group, for instance, Latino men rated Latinas as 13 percent more attractive than the average for the site, while they rated African-American women 25 percent less attractive. That is an insane generalization going on. What metric are we using to determine this? Is it possible that people who tend to participa…

People publish (and make policy on) bad statistics all the time; peer reviewed and otherwise. Compared to the idiocy that's been promulgated in economics or, say, nutrition, this hardly seems to qualify for the word "dangerous."

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#16
post #11

The spookiest thing is not the data or the experiments, but the off the cuff conclusions. For example: > As a group, for instance, Latino men rated Latinas as 13 percent more attractive than the average for the site, while they rated African-American women 25 percent less attractive. That is an insane generalization going on. What metric are we using to determine this? Is it possible that people who tend to participa…

They report correlation, not causation. What you ask for, is that they should put much more effort into researching cause and effect or not publish the data at all. But I for one prefer having data in this form than none at all. Anyone who is reading hackernews every now and then should know about "correlation != causation" by now.

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#17
post #11

The spookiest thing is not the data or the experiments, but the off the cuff conclusions. For example: > As a group, for instance, Latino men rated Latinas as 13 percent more attractive than the average for the site, while they rated African-American women 25 percent less attractive. That is an insane generalization going on. What metric are we using to determine this? Is it possible that people who tend to participa…

> That is an insane generalization going on.

yes, it can be shocking to be presented with plainly spoken, cold hard facts when you grow up in and are surrounded by a sterile bubble of non-fact-based discourse. especially in a topic as taboo as dating, sex, race, and marriage. this is called cognitive dissonance.

trust me, as an asian american male, none of the cold facts of reality were ever hidden from me behind a facade of soothing lies. when i was much younger, i couldn't get laid, and i had to face reality head-on, and seriously work on myself to get ahead of the curve during my 20s.

> In my experience, many of these metrics are not as concrete as the appear and full of pushing the data to fit a narrative etc.

in my experience the okcupid blog's conclusions fit the narrative of reality when it comes to sexual market value, race, and attraction, whereas you're espousing a more politically correct kind of conclusion that fits an artificial narrative of egalitarian bullshit that in no way, shape, or form applies to the modern sexual marketplace (online dating and the hookup scene). there are winners, and there are losers, period. if you're not getting laid, you are losing. there is no long courtship period anymore. chivalry is dead.

how is it so radical and "dangerous" to conclude that men generally prefer younger, more fertile women, or that latino men generally prefer latino women? i mean are you even being serious?

Re: OkCupid’s Unblushing Analyst of Attraction

#19
post #12
post #5

I really enjoyed reading OkTrends posts, but having near radio silence for three years (apart from one post last July) followed by a full-on PR blitz for a new book (comes out on Tuesday) makes me a little sad. This piece almost makes it sound as if Rudder has been blogging based on OkCupid results this whole time... and if you go to the OkTrends site, you see huge inline placement for Rudder's new book.

OKTrends went dormant when OKCupid was sold to the company that operates match.com. I don't know what Rudder's involvement with OKCupid was after that, but he was no longer one of the owners. He might have still worked there, but kept his blog silent under pressure from management.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN