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Stop and Seize

washingtonpost.com

171–180 of 212 posts

Re: Stop and Seize

#171
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of money laundering operations is related to terrorist financing. Also, many terrorist organizations finance themselves via drug sales.

Why was this voted down? It strikes me as something requiring some citations or rebuttal, but not a simple downvote.

Because it's brain mush, and because it's old enough to be plainly seen as such by most people. Just like aluminum tubes, or telling (intellectual) children that "Al Kayda" is going to blow up their beloved shopping mall.

If OP wants to take the easy route by getting his world view from common propaganda (look at some of those other comments. "checks and balances" - that rich!), that's his right (assuming he's not just part of an organized program to stifle discussion). But that doesn't mean we should respect such drivel as legitimate discourse - mass media prevails precisely through sheer attrition.

Re: Stop and Seize

#172

All that will happen from this is that criminals will find ways to move money without cash (like bitcoins, etc) and the only people caught will be non-criminals or really stupid criminals. Everything evolves in reaction to pressures.

The real criminals just use big banks for money laundering: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-...

Re: Stop and Seize

#173
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your sentiments. I'm more ambivalent about this process than I should be, as an admirer of the checks and balances in our constitution. I would suspect that the vast majority of such hauls is drug money laundering related. "Normal" folks would be scared of losing such cash or having it stolen. I know I would be petrified at the thought. However, there are probably a few folks who don't use banks (don't trust…

So, what is the actual harm of letting it slide? Like, really--what is the actual harm of letting the laundering occur? What is the root cause of that harm? Why is it a large and profitable industry at all (hint: it's not because of the drugs)? Then look at it on the other side: What is the harm done to a citizen or person who isn't conducting illegal business but who is suddenly losing thousands or tens of thousands…

For certain large types of crime such as fraud of stolen creditcard data and others, the only bottleneck is the ability to launder the stolen money - with the current limitations, it generally requires recruiting (scamming) 'mules' to do your laundering for you in limited volumes.

That means, if tomorrow suddenly it'd be possible to launder x% more funds with the same effort, then immediately that fraud will grow by that same x%.

Also, for certain types of crime 'following the money' is pretty much the only way how they get solved. Anti money laundering laws have valid uses - of course, they definitely don't need to prescribe seizing legally obtained cash.

Re: Stop and Seize

#174
post #51

Talk about Orwellian double-speak: they call it "asset forfeiture" and the "Equitable Sharing Program." It's theft and everybody knows it. > "despite warnings from state and federal authorities that the information could violate privacy and constitutional protections." It's illegal , pure and simple. No need to sugar coat. > "Police can seize cash that they find if they have probable cause to suspect that it is relat…

The only obligation of the police is to investigate crime and arrest criminals. They have no requirement to protect people, much less property.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=...

Re: Stop and Seize

#175
post #84
post #55

This is by no means a justification for these seizures, but in reading this I can't help but wonder in what legitimate situations one would actually need to carry such large amounts of cash. Would a money-order or bank-certified check not do the job, or would those be seizable by the police as well? Again, I say this more in a "how can I avoid this type of situation" sense, rather than implying that there was any wro…

I took $9500 in internship savings in cash across the border with Canada a few years ago. I wanted to put the USD directly into my RRSP (Canadian 401K) and a wire transfer would have cost $40 and international deposit of a bank draft would have taken 3 weeks. I would have taken more but >$10k requires a customs declaration which I didn't want to deal with.

Remember that choosing to take less than US$10k in order to avoid the reporting and customs paperwork is a crime in the USA, too.

Re: Stop and Seize

#176
post #137

Reading through these comments, I see quite a bit of ignorance. A lot along the lines of, "Why would you ever carry cash!?" Which fortunately a lot of cogent comment have successfully answered. Another is, "Why would you carry that much cash it's so RISKY?" As someone whose had to carry around five figure sums around quite a bit in the past because of my profession (hint: it rhymes with "rambling") my far and away, i…

Why couldn't you deposit the money in a bank, and withdraw it as close to the casino as possible?

Re: Stop and Seize

#177
> “Those laws were meant to take a guy out for selling $1 million in cocaine or who was trying to launder large amounts of money,” said Mark Overton, the police chief in Bal Harbour, Fla., who once oversaw a federal drug task force in South Florida.

If that was your intention then why on earth did you allow seizures from civilians? Seems to me that the best way to seize a million dollars from a cocaine dealer is to arrest him if you have reasonable suspicion, and if he's convicted, seize the money.

But of course, it's a lot easier to just take his money without being able to prove your suspicion. :\

Re: Stop and Seize

#178
As long as the war on drugs continues to be waged, injustices like this will continue to happen. Civil forfeiture, SWAT team raids, mandatory miniums, etc. It seems to me that our society is so well off, it has to make up criminal laws, criminalizing victimless, ordinary activities, so that the police and courts have something to constantly do, so they can fund their operations. Another problem is that much of the rest of the world follows suit, usually because they have no other choice. They are pressured through the UN (basically an extension of US policy), sanctions, aid, etc.

It is these actions by police that truly terrify. Foreign organizations don't even hold a candle to the terrorism of our domestic police and law enforcement agencies. Some may point out that freedom of the press/speech still exists, but to that, I will point out that our government has realized a long time ago that it does not need to control speech to control people. In fact, many public channels, especially TV are already controlled by the people in favor of government (see FOX news). By allowing such pretend freedoms as freedom of speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, it makes it much harder to fight all the abuses.

Every single amendment in the Bill of Rights has been decimated and rendered powerless, especially in the last few decades. As another poster here pointed out, however, the cases in proportion to the total population affect a very small percentage of the population, and in most cases, they target minorities who have less credibility and power to fight them in our racist society.

Injustice is everywhere in our society and there seems to be little incentive or even means by regular people to fight it. How does it feel to live in such an unjust society, one that persecutes not only its own people, but also invades other countries based on lies? It's infuriating, helpless, depressing, and most of all, terrifying.

Re: Stop and Seize

#179

I live in Reno, so with Burning Man recently I saw a disproportionate number of traffic stops off the freeway. The interesting thing about Burning Man, however, is that all vehicles are marked by the tell-tale dust from the Playa. Cops can easily identify which cars should be pulled over. I've seen cops rooting around in dust marked cars while concerned Burners watch. I can't stress enough how important it is to know…

Where is the Burning Man Auto Wash service? With powerful vacuums for that special "no residual seeds" detailing? Or at least the Burning Man Avoid The Man infoproduct? It must not be common knowledge if so many cars hit the highway with dust.

Re: Stop and Seize

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what is the actual harm of letting it slide? Like, really--what is the actual harm of letting the laundering occur? What is the root cause of that harm? Why is it a large and profitable industry at all (hint: it's not because of the drugs)? Then look at it on the other side: What is the harm done to a citizen or person who isn't conducting illegal business but who is suddenly losing thousands or tens of thousands…

For certain large types of crime such as fraud of stolen creditcard data and others, the only bottleneck is the ability to launder the stolen money - with the current limitations, it generally requires recruiting (scamming) 'mules' to do your laundering for you in limited volumes. That means, if tomorrow suddenly it'd be possible to launder x% more funds with the same effort, then immediately that fraud will grow by…

And yet it seems that the headlines are dominated by "The Terrorists" and "The Evil Drugs Lords", not "Surprisingly Annoying Credit Card Fraudsters".

Indeed, the very fact that credit card fraud is effective is more proof that the existing credit system needs upgrading and that cash-only is not an unreasonable way of handling these transactions.

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