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Stop and Seize

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Stop and Seize

#121

Post by DanBC »

tbrownaw wrote: post #92
clamprecht wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. It's especially convenient when the seller only accepts cash, since a non-cash transaction would be impossible. I have no problem with France's law against cash (since I'm not a French resident). France also doesn't have freedom of the press, and I'm ok with that.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. If it's generally known that nobody carries large amounts of cash, I imagine it might make muggings a bit less common. It's not so much you personally carrying lots of cash that's safe or unsafe, it's what fraction of the population carries lots of cash that makes things safe or unsafe.

People are mugged for tiny amounts of money.

Muggers are after enough money to buy drugs, and so they don't care if it's a few dollars.

Re: Stop and Seize

#122

Post by [deleted] »

DominikR wrote: post #117

Why doesn't your society resist? Parts of your police is now equiped like an army on a battlefield and money can be seized without any reasoning. And then there's NSA spying, torture and drone executions of suspected terrorists (even US citizens) without trial. If someone would have told me 20 years ago, that the US will turn into this, I would have thought that this person must be insane. Now it wouldn't even surpri…

[deleted]

Re: Stop and Seize

#123

Post by JamesBarney »

delinka wrote: post #72
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #4

The local governments invariable claim it's not about the money; it's about safety or some such. I want an amendment that puts all the money from fines, seizures, etc. to the national debt. That's the closest thing to a black hole for money I can think of. Watch them scream then. Not about the money, my ass.

While a noble thought, I doubt the ultimate implementation would be amenable to a free society. I fear this would encourage the federal government to step up efforts to seize money. Sure, local authorities would forward the money, only to receive kickbacks from the feds. How that would actually impact the national debt is anyone's guess.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty with which someone in the government can just transfer funds. And two overestimating the incentives for anyone in the federal government to reduce the debt. I would be more interested to hear exactly who has an incentive to reduce the debt in the federal government and the power to transfer money to local police departments.

Re: Stop and Seize

#124

Post by JoshTriplett »

pyvpx wrote: post #46
tehwebguy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see a problem with those laws?

most people don't

Perhaps because most people don't readily have access to thousands of euro/dollars/etc, and thus see less problem with assuming anyone who does is up to no good.

Re: Stop and Seize

#125

Post by ejr »

DominikR wrote: post #117

Why doesn't your society resist? Parts of your police is now equiped like an army on a battlefield and money can be seized without any reasoning. And then there's NSA spying, torture and drone executions of suspected terrorists (even US citizens) without trial. If someone would have told me 20 years ago, that the US will turn into this, I would have thought that this person must be insane. Now it wouldn't even surpri…

Because resistance is futile. The machinery of government explicitly favours authority and that very authority was given to them willingly by the voting - or non voting - masses. It is the authority that everyone, including the plundered, believe they must have in order to keep them safe. Resistance takes courage and a willingness to lose everything you care about, such as your prideful opinion, free time or an hour of your attention.

The sacrifice is too great for the overwhelming majority of the populace comfortable with what they have and a chronic aversion to all things unpleasant. I've lost count of how many people I've seen change the channel when news of war or police brutality come on.

When the effort needed to change government matches that of a retweet, we will see change.

Re: Stop and Seize

#126

Post by clamprecht »

tbrownaw wrote: post #92
clamprecht wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. It's especially convenient when the seller only accepts cash, since a non-cash transaction would be impossible. I have no problem with France's law against cash (since I'm not a French resident). France also doesn't have freedom of the press, and I'm ok with that.

You said cash is neither convenient nor safe. I've paid with cash, and I find it convenient and safe. If it's generally known that nobody carries large amounts of cash, I imagine it might make muggings a bit less common. It's not so much you personally carrying lots of cash that's safe or unsafe, it's what fraction of the population carries lots of cash that makes things safe or unsafe.

It's ok to walk around with a $25,000 rolex publicly visible. Contradiction.

Re: Stop and Seize

#127

Post by csomar »

edw519 wrote: post #8

He was carrying $75,000 raised from relatives to buy a Chinese restaurant... They took $18,000 that he said was meant to buy a used car. ...was stunned when police took $17,550 from him during a stop in 2012 for a minor traffic infraction... The deputy found $75,195 in a suitcase in the back seat... They were carrying $28,500 in church funds meant for the purchase of land... No doubt there's injustice that needs to b…

They can seize your house or bank account too. But these are idiots (those who open bank accounts, and buy houses) too, I guess.

Re: Stop and Seize

#128

Post by JoshTriplett »

kghose wrote: post #65
shin_lao wrote: post #30

I don't see what the problem is. In France if you carry more than 10,000 € in cash, you need to make a custom declaration. It's also illegal to buy something for more than 3,000 € in cash.

This is interesting. You given an interesting law about an European country and you get down voted. HN has become a close minded community. You certainly added to the discussion with an interesting fact. Thank you. http://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-...

The statements of the law in France seem like useful information; those aren't what the downvotes come from. The statement that "I don't see what the problem is." invites the downvotes.

Re: Stop and Seize

#129

Post by strathmeyer »

DominikR wrote: post #117

Why doesn't your society resist? Parts of your police is now equiped like an army on a battlefield and money can be seized without any reasoning. And then there's NSA spying, torture and drone executions of suspected terrorists (even US citizens) without trial. If someone would have told me 20 years ago, that the US will turn into this, I would have thought that this person must be insane. Now it wouldn't even surpri…

We're still fighting for jobs under the illusion that we can become middle class.

Re: Stop and Seize

#130

Post by stanleydrew »

DominikR wrote: post #117

Why doesn't your society resist? Parts of your police is now equiped like an army on a battlefield and money can be seized without any reasoning. And then there's NSA spying, torture and drone executions of suspected terrorists (even US citizens) without trial. If someone would have told me 20 years ago, that the US will turn into this, I would have thought that this person must be insane. Now it wouldn't even surpri…

Policemen likely don't think of themselves as "going after their own people." They think of themselves as going after criminals, often times profiled based on race (e.g. the anecdote from the article about stopping a Mexican wearing a U of Wyoming hat).

And being a police officer probably conditions you pretty quickly to assume that everyone is a bad person. When you do deal with lots of criminals every day you start to assume the worst about everyone you come in contact with.

See e.g. the Zimbardo Prison Experiment for reference on the psychological effects of arbitrary authority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment.

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