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Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

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Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#91
post #51

I am reading thru this and it is a good, recommended read however I am getting slightly annoyed with academic attitude of the author. Like batman in the cartoon I want to slap him but not for "sloppy market research". But for using the term "market research" at all. (This is essientially the first and maybe the second point reiterated.) Suppose you were a cook with your own restaurant. How do you figure out what work…

You summed up lean learning methodology very well with the restaurant analogy. You are absolutely right you can't just ask people, 'hey how are we doing', you study the result.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. It's a grocery store (typically one of the big 'real world' ones) that also takes complete orders online and delivers them to you. It's a big deal in the UK with most major supermarkets now having an online component.

I'm in rural North America so that's a pretty amazing concept. Thanks. So this article is saying people can order the ingriedidnts for a single meal and have them delivered that day? That would definitely put him out of business huh?

Most of the online supermarkets in the UK have a minimum delivery spend, which means you wouldn't really be able to do that (unless your idea of a single meal involves lobster and champagne).

From what I can tell, Dinnr didn't seem like a bad idea - I know a lot of people in London who really care about food, really enjoy making it themselves, and get excited about anything to which they can attach words like "artisanal"... and many of them don't really care much about the cost.

Shame it didn't work out, really.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#93
post #51

I am reading thru this and it is a good, recommended read however I am getting slightly annoyed with academic attitude of the author. Like batman in the cartoon I want to slap him but not for "sloppy market research". But for using the term "market research" at all. (This is essientially the first and maybe the second point reiterated.) Suppose you were a cook with your own restaurant. How do you figure out what work…

This analogy completely misses the huge chasm between a physical outlet where you can actually look at people, talk to them and watch their actual behaviour, vs. a web property (usability tests help to close the gap)

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#94
I'm sorry to hear all the "psh...of course it didn't work. he should have done this and that's!".

I thought this was an interesting read. Armchair after-the-fact analysis when you weren't the one involved (which can cloud judgement) is pretty easy.

Thanks to the author for taking the time to write up his experiences.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#95

"I will try not to go too much into the Dinnr specifics. Most of the readers of this post will not be interested in Dinnr itself." It's actualy the interesting part. Advices or lessons don't have a lot of value without context.

Maybe I missed it, but I wonder what their pricing was like, in particular.

edit: never mind, I found http://meatinabox.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/dinnr-a-review/ and it suggests it was in the $20-25/person/meal. That seems steep... I see other reviews (they did a nice job getting reviews and getting good search placement with them) saying 22GBP for an entree for 2, and 12GBP for an app for 2.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#96
post #39

Post mordems like this make me sad. Not for the founder's bank account per se, but for the fact that he has all the wrong takeaways from his startup experience. You started off well. You did the market research. Great. You've clearly gotten people interested in the service. Even better. You demonstrated in your post that a clear-headed approach was taken and you objectively determined people would want your product.…

My exact thoughts as I read through this post-mortem. I don't see this, nor do I see any service of this type, as something I would use everyday. However, I can imagine a scenario when my parents or friends come into town and I want to stay in with a home-cooked meal, and catch up, but don't have the time to select the dishes nor shop for the ingredients.

Did they ever attempt to position it in this way? How did they position it? The answers to these questions would be of equal value to all the other information provided.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#97
Right after I read this, my immediate reaction was to feel kind of annoyed at the author. A little superficially, no tech or design talent in house, no food industry experience, and not much marketing and sales expertise, so what exactly does he bring to the table here, besides really wanting a startup?

Also, this idea hits on one of those things that lots of people really want to believe that they would do - cook their own healthy, organic, gourmet, etc food - but very few will actually take much initiative to do on their own. That doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't viable, but it does mean that your big challenge is going to be marketing and conversions - getting people to go beyond saying things that basically mean "I really want to believe that I am the kind of person who would use something like this, even though I'm not", and actually buy the product regularly.

After thinking about it some more and reading some of the posts on here, this might be a viable idea, but it's going to need a lot better marketing to go anywhere. A few ideas, some stolen from other posts, mostly in an attempt to exercise my own marketing-think muscles:

Make the product stickier - try to sell a recurring plan of a meal a week that has to be explicitly cancelled. Or at least email people who have ordered regularly to suggest new meals for them. You do have new, promoted meals, right?

Have a spread of products, from things that just require heating, barely a step above microwavable, though mild prep, up to things that may require an hour or 2 in the kitchen to make. See which ones sell the best, and emphasize those.

Try to partner with anybody involved in cooking or recipes with an audience in the area. If they're on the web, make it super easy for them to submit ingredient lists for their recipes to you, then an easy way for them to put a link on their site for "Get the ingredients for my [whatever] delivered to your door today with Dinnr!", with affiliate payments for orders. Now you're helping them monetize their sites too, so they have a good incentive to work with you.

In person, too. There's probably some cooking classes in the area. Get those classes to plug your site for their students to get ingredients for an affiliate fee.

Get some cooking experts on staff, and start producing your own youtube videos and blog content on how to cook things, with an emphasis on explaining the basics for newbie cooks. It would probably help you make sure you're actually getting good quality ingredients too.

Make social connections. Make a way for people to tell their friends on FaceTwitInstaPint that they just cooked X, and it was awesome! It might even be good to make it so that they can only order basic things at first, and they get points or something from cooking them, which will eventually make them eligible to order the more advanced things. They can brag about how many Dinnr points they have. They can see that they're either getting more than the other guy, so they can think they're better than them, or they aren't getting as much as somebody else, so they need to order more stuff. Then you can suggest new meals, too, based on their skill level and their preferences.

The real pain point isn't shopping, getting ingredients, or throwing away unused ingredients. It's wanting to be seen to their social circle as the kind of person who cooks awesome stuff. Figure out how to hit that, and you'll probably sell.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#99

"Having such detailed feedback wouldn’t require diving into the data, but having someone spend an hour stress-testing my thinking and assumptions would have been gold dust and could have prevented a lot of effort wasted." Hrm... I get asked (on occasion) to do this sort of 'stress test' on someone's idea - and usually they don't want to hear the negatives anyway. Sometimes it can morph a not-great idea in to a better…

I see this all the time with the startup founders I work with. It's a version of the IKEA effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect).

Many founders (myself included) find it difficult to scrap an idea they have created and are emotionally attached to, even after seeing strong evidence to the contrary.

I often wonder if YC has seen better results from teams that were accepted without an idea (granted, it's likely a much smaller sample size to work from). I wonder if that somehow makes them less susceptible to this tendency for founders to place a disproportionately high value on the quality of their idea(s), allowing them to focus more broadly on markets and identifying real problems to solve.

Re: Lessons I learned from the failure of my first startup, Dinnr

#100
post #95

"I will try not to go too much into the Dinnr specifics. Most of the readers of this post will not be interested in Dinnr itself." It's actualy the interesting part. Advices or lessons don't have a lot of value without context.

Maybe I missed it, but I wonder what their pricing was like, in particular. edit: never mind, I found http://meatinabox.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/dinnr-a-review/ and it suggests it was in the $20-25/person/meal. That seems steep... I see other reviews (they did a nice job getting reviews and getting good search placement with them) saying 22GBP for an entree for 2, and 12GBP for an app for 2.

Yeah, I feel his conclusion was that the idea was bad by itself and blame people to be nice with him. But, maybe, it was the execution which was bad. Like crappy recipes with crappy ingredients and a poor experience.
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