What the hell is going on? We're in the middle of a major investment into Scala, and now there's forks left and right, both amicable and not-so-amicable. This doesn't inspire confidence, although I'm still classifying it as growing pains/healthy lively ecosystem. I really don't want to stick with Java 8.
Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
61–70 of 119 posts
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#62Shouldn't this be called Standard Scala? Too soon?
Or "Enhanced Scala Compiler System"?
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#63What the hell is going on? We're in the middle of a major investment into Scala, and now there's forks left and right, both amicable and not-so-amicable. This doesn't inspire confidence, although I'm still classifying it as growing pains/healthy lively ecosystem. I really don't want to stick with Java 8.
Clojure isn't forking...
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#64Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#65Wait.. is it called policy? That's going to be a nightmare to Google Almost as bad as 'play' (which has largely fallen back to 'playframework')
Thank goodness you can search "golang" for things related to the go language. That's sometimes a nightmare too.
Unfortunately this SEO justified change has permeated the community and now people call the language "golang" instead of "Go".
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would actually say that he is making it worse, in some respects. Many, actually. I get that he is very capable. I don't think he is necessarily doing the platform any favors with this attitude or fork. That is, how is this helping? If he gets a better compiler out, great. Are the odds high that will happen? Especially with the history that the community has had with a few high profile individuals either constantly…
> I would actually say that he is making it worse, in some respects. Many, actually. Oh, for sure. The key though is that the value of "it" which I am making worse is not a value of "it" which I have any interest in making better. Nor would I ever suggest otherwise. In your mind I may be nothing but an input into your total utility function, but there's no reason for you to expect me to care about maximizing it.
Fair enough. I am somewhat curious as to what "it" you plan on making better. Also curious as to why this fork "isn't the kind of fork that hopes eventually to be folded back into the original." That, specifically, just reads bitterly.
Also, sadly, at the moment none of this is any real input to any utility I control. I have used Scala in the past. I tried setting my plans with Lift, but that didn't go over well with my coworkers. So, as of now, I am merely on the sidelines. And, do note that I am not trying to demand you not do this. Just saying from my vantage point, I'm not at all clear on what this is improving.
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
He gives a few hints on the github page and in the many presentations he's been giving these past months since he left Typesafe. The short version is that he lost trust in the Typesafe team and he thinks they are not competent to carry Scala moving forward. Like he says, he tried to change things from the inside, he couldn't, so now he's trying from the outside.
Typesafe hasn't lost my confidence. Typesafe has been responsible for important progress which is already being taken for granted. People either have forgotten how low assurance was in the 2.8 days, or they weren't using scala yet. The problem is on the other side of the Atlantic. Scala is unfixable now no matter the abilities of the people working on it because of the bad decisions which have been made to this point…
Want to express my thanks for all you have done for the Scala and JVM communities so far. Looking forward to seeing what's next.
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would actually say that he is making it worse, in some respects. Many, actually. I get that he is very capable. I don't think he is necessarily doing the platform any favors with this attitude or fork. That is, how is this helping? If he gets a better compiler out, great. Are the odds high that will happen? Especially with the history that the community has had with a few high profile individuals either constantly…
The Scala community isn't toxic. There's been drama and each time the community has moved on. Paul, Tony Morris and probably others from before I started paying any attention. Even with this recent "drama", after thinking about it for a few days, I've come to welcome it if anything. Regular Scala can shift its focus to becoming a conservative language while Typelevel acts as the incubator. If the two meet their compa…
"Constantly making waves" is probably more accurate from the days back when Tony Morris was active on the mailing lists. Paul, I believe, also made a fair bit of waves back in the day, but for some reason his were always much more palatable. (He has a very good writing style and is never, that I really remember, flat out mean.)
I guess the big waves I remember are essentially about a post a week from Tony. The hoopla around Colebourne's opinions on the language[1]. And then the mystery/whatever around Pollak's involvement in the community.[2]
The later point is odd just for how much traction lift seemed to be generating, and then the overall community appeared to reject it heavily. Do note that I would still recommend it. Their community is quite nice and helpful.
And I should definitely make clear that it is very possible I just don't see the waves in other communities. I don't really see Scala's anymore; this week being a notable exception. To me, though, high tension is not exactly a good environment. Heck, for all of the flack he gets, Torvalds is usually more cordial than many of the threads I remember from this community.
[1] http://blog.joda.org/2011/11/scala-feels-like-ejb-2-and-othe...
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#69What the hell is going on? We're in the middle of a major investment into Scala, and now there's forks left and right, both amicable and not-so-amicable. This doesn't inspire confidence, although I'm still classifying it as growing pains/healthy lively ecosystem. I really don't want to stick with Java 8.
Clojure isn't forking...
But it also doesn't offer many of the benefits and much of the functionality that Scala offers. A familiar C-like syntax, static typing, and so on are very important for a lot of Scala's users.
Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler
#70asfq1