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Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

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Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#11
post #3

Can someone with some familiarity with Scala community explain why someone who seems to be the largest contributor to Scala felt the need to create a fork? It seems completely justified due to his credentials, but he doesn't give any specific reasons why he created this fork.

Paul Phillips' 2013 rant/talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1lpKBMkgg

The slide "What I'm after" may be found around the 38 minute mark.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#12
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It turns into a rant about how he'd wish the compiler and the editor and the source control should be all talking with one another. It's funny, because there's actually a language just like that: Smalltalk. The development environment is the same as the runtime environment, it has its own source control (Monticello), its own editor and a very regular language.

I can assure you of two things:

1) Paul is not ignorant of the existence of Smalltalk

2) Smalltalk is not a replacement for the fruits of modern language research. In fact, the academic work around Smalltalk is nothing more than unsupported opinion, and it's not even remotely useful as a source of research.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#14
Why are parallel collections an "albatross"? I can understand it if he plans to replace the functionality you get by writing "list.par.map(func).seq" with "list.parmap(func)" or something, though. Parallel list functions are one of my favorite features in Scala, and I think it would be a serious loss if they disappeared.

Also, I wonder what the two Scala forkers are thinking about Dotty (the next-gen Typesafe scala compiler) and how they imagine merging their ideas in.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#15
It appears to be a fork of the compiler not the language itself.

I don't know much about Scala but I believe that most of its facilities are in the libraries rather than the language itself.

Since he seems to know more about compiling Scala than everyone else I guess it must be a good thing. Lets hope others get to fill the inevitable gaps.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The leadership of scala has shown itself unfit stewards of the core technologies and the total price paid by scala programmers (actual and potential) is too high. I failed for half a decade to change that from the inside. Now I'll try from the outside."

That's a strongly worded statement for a front page, but I wish I knew something more about the situation. What progress is being held back? I've not written a line of Scala myself.

Internals, mostly, I think. Correctness. According to Phillips, the internals of scalac are a complete mess, and the runtime generated code is also non-ideal. Basically, all sorts of software best practices are being broken to achieve performance and ensure Scala is a superset of Java.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#18
post #17

Wait.. is it called policy? That's going to be a nightmare to Google Almost as bad as 'play' (which has largely fallen back to 'playframework')

Thank goodness you can search "golang" for things related to the go language. That's sometimes a nightmare too.

Re: Policy – A fork of the Scala compiler

#19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns into a rant about how he'd wish the compiler and the editor and the source control should be all talking with one another. It's funny, because there's actually a language just like that: Smalltalk. The development environment is the same as the runtime environment, it has its own source control (Monticello), its own editor and a very regular language.

I can assure you of two things: 1) Paul is not ignorant of the existence of Smalltalk 2) Smalltalk is not a replacement for the fruits of modern language research. In fact, the academic work around Smalltalk is nothing more than unsupported opinion, and it's not even remotely useful as a source of research.

Parent was out of line but there is still plenty of modern academic research occurring around Smalltalk. Not to mention Gilad's Newspeak (which may or may not be academic, you'd have to ask him).
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