Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#51

Post by mnem » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:04 PM UTC

Throwaway823 wrote: post #49

buro9 wrote: post #33

Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition? On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses). And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using…

Dyson definitely does a great job at marketing, and giving their products a premium price and expectations. I was at the store one day, and saw vacuum cleaners. Now, I have no interest in a vacuum at the moment, but they had a Dyson Ball, and I've seen countless videos of it, and had to take a look to see this high-end vacuum. I was disappointed from the first second, it just looked like a bunch of cheap plastic part…

You really don't want things made substantially of glass when you have to hold them at arms length and bash them around nooks and crannies :) One of the nice things about Dyson vacuum cleaners is that you can take most of the important bits apart by hand - something other manufacturers don't seem to bother thinking about. Vacuums get blockages all the time, especially if you happen to have cat litter made from wooden chips...

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#52

Post by nickflees » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:08 PM UTC

Throwaway823 wrote: post #49

buro9 wrote: post #33

Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition? On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses). And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using…

Dyson definitely does a great job at marketing, and giving their products a premium price and expectations. I was at the store one day, and saw vacuum cleaners. Now, I have no interest in a vacuum at the moment, but they had a Dyson Ball, and I've seen countless videos of it, and had to take a look to see this high-end vacuum. I was disappointed from the first second, it just looked like a bunch of cheap plastic part…

I own the vacuum pictured in the first link. I bought it with high expectations and disappointment began to set in almost immediately. After 3 years of not-totally-clean floors and periodic struggles getting the rotating brush to work, I finally replaced it with a much cheaper competing brand. My carpets and floors have never been cleaner.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#53

Post by asuffield » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:09 PM UTC

Throwaway823 wrote: post #49

buro9 wrote: post #33

Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition? On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses). And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using…

Dyson definitely does a great job at marketing, and giving their products a premium price and expectations. I was at the store one day, and saw vacuum cleaners. Now, I have no interest in a vacuum at the moment, but they had a Dyson Ball, and I've seen countless videos of it, and had to take a look to see this high-end vacuum. I was disappointed from the first second, it just looked like a bunch of cheap plastic part…

It appears that you are placing a very high value on how shiny things are and their presentation. In that case Dyson is probably not for you; they are fundamentally an industrial engineering organisation.

I own that model of vacuum you have photographed, and it's just.... good. Lightweight, easy to push around tight corners, and sucks up everything in my flat in under 10 minutes without ever having to fight it. It makes it very clear that ever other model I've ever used was not very well-designed.

It is not the kind of status symbol that you appear to be seeking. Kirby makes those and I think you'd be a lot happier with their products.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#54

Post by hessenwolf » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:10 PM UTC

tonylemesmer wrote: post #41

riffraff wrote: post #20

there's one thing I don't understand about this robot, as well as the roomba: how does it clean corners?

It doesn't. The idea of the cleaner is that it reduces the overall level of dirt in your house. Its a "maintenance" cleaner as it can just continuously clean. Therefore the buildup of dirt in the corners will be less as there is less dirt around generally. However you will still need a secondary vacuum to do the corners, cobwebs, stairs etc. Its aimed at people with plenty of cash, who might not blink at having one p…

Our Roomba does a good job on the corners. It has a rotating brush that sticks out.

We thought we'd need a second vacuum cleaner, but we really haven't.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#55

Post by Istof » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:27 PM UTC

Throwaway823 wrote: post #49

buro9 wrote: post #33

Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition? On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses). And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using…

Dyson definitely does a great job at marketing, and giving their products a premium price and expectations. I was at the store one day, and saw vacuum cleaners. Now, I have no interest in a vacuum at the moment, but they had a Dyson Ball, and I've seen countless videos of it, and had to take a look to see this high-end vacuum. I was disappointed from the first second, it just looked like a bunch of cheap plastic part…

In you first picture, if both angle of view would be the same and if the user-taken picture would have been taken before actually using the vacuum, they would look much more similar... (the dust compartment looks full and hide components)

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#56

Post by Eiriksmal » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:52 PM UTC

abcd_f wrote: post #35

> Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years Because that's how Dyson marketing department spins it.

This is a valid point. What better way to convince people that your product is superior to the competition? "Why are we so late to the robot-vacuum game? Great question. You see, we spent 16 years perfecting our robot, whereas our competitors rushed something to launch to capitalize on a trend."

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#57

Post by Throwaway823 » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 12:59 PM UTC

asuffield wrote: post #53

Throwaway823 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dyson definitely does a great job at marketing, and giving their products a premium price and expectations. I was at the store one day, and saw vacuum cleaners. Now, I have no interest in a vacuum at the moment, but they had a Dyson Ball, and I've seen countless videos of it, and had to take a look to see this high-end vacuum. I was disappointed from the first second, it just looked like a bunch of cheap plastic part…

It appears that you are placing a very high value on how shiny things are and their presentation. In that case Dyson is probably not for you; they are fundamentally an industrial engineering organisation. I own that model of vacuum you have photographed, and it's just.... good. Lightweight, easy to push around tight corners, and sucks up everything in my flat in under 10 minutes without ever having to fight it. It ma…

I don't care about a status symbol. I'm not in the vacuum market right now and already own a miele.

Based on all the hype Dyson tries to generate, their product renders, commercials, sales lingo, etc, I expected this to be the iPhone of vacuums, where it was priced high, because it functions well, and has a great build quality.

Instead, it just looked overpriced, and the quality appeared no better than the vacuums a third of the price. I was disappointed, that's all, it looks like they spent their budget on marketing and the quality of the product came second.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#58

Post by ianstallings » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 2:10 PM UTC

pw wrote: post #3

This was a disappointingly light read. I was hoping for lots of fascinating technical details and a heartening, Apple-esque story of biding one's time with a product (along with an analysis of what technical advancements make now the right time for the Dyson robot vacuum). And there was exactly one paragraph about why it's launching in Japan first.

I actually have a hosts rule for techcrunch articles that helps me avoid this frustration:

/etc/hosts:

0.0.0.0 techcrunch.com

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#59

Post by Shivetya » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 2:13 PM UTC

tonylemesmer wrote: post #29

Schwolop wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, for robotic vacuums _low_ weight is also a problem: the better your suction, the worse your ability to drive! The tank-tread wheels on Dyson's model are meant to help mitigate against this, but I gather from (now ex-) insiders that this is still a buggy sticking point (ha!) that needs to be solved before release.

ex-dyson robotic engineer here. Correct - low weight means you have less force to apply to the wheels and hence achieve grip. The design of the aperture where the air goes into the vaccum (the soleplate) has to be optimised between flicking the carpet fibres in the right fashion to achieve good dirt pickup and not impeding sliding across the carpet too much. The design of the tyres is critical. If there is any slip i…

can you not get any propulsion from a beater bar?

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#60

Post by gbhn » Fri, Sep 05, 2014, 2:18 PM UTC

Throwaway823 wrote: post #57

asuffield wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears that you are placing a very high value on how shiny things are and their presentation. In that case Dyson is probably not for you; they are fundamentally an industrial engineering organisation. I own that model of vacuum you have photographed, and it's just.... good. Lightweight, easy to push around tight corners, and sucks up everything in my flat in under 10 minutes without ever having to fight it. It ma…

I don't care about a status symbol. I'm not in the vacuum market right now and already own a miele. Based on all the hype Dyson tries to generate, their product renders, commercials, sales lingo, etc, I expected this to be the iPhone of vacuums, where it was priced high, because it functions well, and has a great build quality. Instead, it just looked overpriced, and the quality appeared no better than the vacuums a…

Agree with the GP -- I own this vacuum and it works great. If you're more in the market for a chrome-and-platinum vacuum and don't care as much about the performance, you're probably headed the right direction with what you have.

What may be worth understanding, though, is that there are people who are equally willing to pay money for good vacuums, but whose judgment of "good vacuum" runs much more to "suction power and functional ability" rather than "build quality."

The idea that there is not a single axis of quality, and that different products can optimize for different axes, is not a new one, but it's one that many tech people in a post-Steve-Jobs era seem to have a hard time remembering.