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Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

engadget.com

31–40 of 87 posts

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#31

The title is almost click baiting. I was hoping to read an in-depth article for the 16years of effort in design the vacuum. Information on how the engineers solve massive problems that would have take many years to do. From the general sense of the article, 16 years was the elapse time from their first version to their release version. However, probably the right level of detail from engadget...

I was expecting a good argument on why it's launched in JA prior to US, UK or EU. Just the fact that Japan is a big adaptor for robotics doesn't make it. Roomba and others have established solid markets for that kind of product outside of Japan already. I hope Dyson can match the demand and will start selling the 360 eye globally soon.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#32
post #14

I find these round robots completely useless in Japan, because in most apartments, they are unable to move around because there's just too much stuff at ground level. There's a reason why normal vacuum cleaner ends are not shaped like landmine detectors, and unless you seriously address that point in your design, these robots will remain completely unadapted to most households.

Did you look at the Neato ones. Their new botvac can vacuum very close to a corner since the brush and vacuum head is placed towards the front and left. http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/produits/601/20289/Neato_Botva...

That's slightly better but the size of these robots is what kills their use. So many times there's not even half the size of these robots between a table and a wall in Japan, they just won't fit there. Dyson should really do more market research before they think they can disrupt the market with basically the same form factor as the other brands. I don't have hard data but my guess is that most people are far from being satisfied with these cleaning robots.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#33
Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition?

On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses).

And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using a low vibration to shake the dirt and dust free of the carpet so that it's easier to pick up the material with less suction power.

I really like Dyson products, but it very much feels like they have a hammer (high powered suction in lower watt motors) and so every problem looks like a nail.

Some of their innovations over the past 5 years haven't impressed me...

Their hand dryers do a worse job than the classic World Dryer and look uglier over time and seem to be less performant over time (smaller clogged filters perhaps!?).

Their "fanless" fan of course has a fan, and whilst it shifts a good chunk of air at first it also suffers from degrading performance as the hidden fan gets clogged with dust over a season. And yet, the classic desk fan performs consistently well all the time.

And the problem with releasing highly-hyped products that turn out to be only average, is that it's hard to believe the hype in future.

Whereas I used to look at a Dyson as being incredibly functional innovation, I now look upon them as gimmicky innovation using their single core-trick.

And of course, they will successfully market and patent all of this (of which even the linked article is a part of that puzzle), such that people start to believe this is the best solution (not proven at all), and that Dyson will claim that no-one else can provide the best because of the patents (partly true, but who said this was the best?).

Years of buying and using Dyson products has left me greatly cynical. Their upright hoovers are still the business though.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#34
Is the solution to a small robot vacuum really to increase the power of the motor above the competition?

On hard wood flooring I've never found rotary brushes to be better than side sweeps (what most of the competition uses).

And on carpet where rotary brushes do perform better, I can't help but think that instead of upping the suction power you could approach the problem from a different perspective... such as using a low vibration to shake the dirt and dust free of the carpet so that it's easier to pick up the material with less suction power.

I really like Dyson products, but it very much feels like they have a hammer (high powered suction in lower watt motors) and so every problem looks like a nail.

Some of their innovations over the past 5 years haven't impressed me...

Their hand dryers do a worse job than the classic World Dryer and look uglier over time and seem to be less performant over time (smaller clogged filters perhaps!?).

Their "fanless" fan of course has a fan, and whilst it shifts a good chunk of air at first it also suffers from degrading performance as the hidden fan gets clogged with dust over a season. And yet, the classic desk fan performs consistently well all the time.

And the problem with releasing highly-hyped products that turn out to be only average, is that it's hard to believe the hype in future.

Whereas I used to look at a Dyson as being incredibly functional innovation, I now look upon them as gimmicky innovation using their single core-trick.

And of course, they will successfully market and patent all of this (of which even the linked article is a part of that puzzle), such that people start to believe this is the best solution (not proven at all), and that Dyson will claim that no-one else can provide the best because of the patents (partly true, but who said this was the best?).

Years of buying and using Dyson products has left me greatly cynical. Their upright hoovers are still the business though.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#36
post #23
post #14

I find these round robots completely useless in Japan, because in most apartments, they are unable to move around because there's just too much stuff at ground level. There's a reason why normal vacuum cleaner ends are not shaped like landmine detectors, and unless you seriously address that point in your design, these robots will remain completely unadapted to most households.

This things are so popular right now in Japan. After going to the shops and seeing a demo of them, I'm also wondering how they work in a Japanese style apartment (most of which are tiny). My friend got one (forgot the brand) because she didn't have time to clean.

TBH vacuuming the floor is just a small part of cleaning - hiring a cleaner is probably a better solution then. Cheaper in the short run, too.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#37
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, for robotic vacuums _low_ weight is also a problem: the better your suction, the worse your ability to drive! The tank-tread wheels on Dyson's model are meant to help mitigate against this, but I gather from (now ex-) insiders that this is still a buggy sticking point (ha!) that needs to be solved before release.

ex-dyson robotic engineer here. Correct - low weight means you have less force to apply to the wheels and hence achieve grip. The design of the aperture where the air goes into the vaccum (the soleplate) has to be optimised between flicking the carpet fibres in the right fashion to achieve good dirt pickup and not impeding sliding across the carpet too much. The design of the tyres is critical. If there is any slip i…

Add suction to the treads? A few air holes routed to the side of the tread where there's a vacuum pickup? I bet it would be tricky to get a seal that has low enough friction to allow the tread to slide past but still a good enough seal to get good suction from the bottom of the tread. Oh and it's got to last and last. Yikes... back to coding I go...

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#38
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, for robotic vacuums _low_ weight is also a problem: the better your suction, the worse your ability to drive! The tank-tread wheels on Dyson's model are meant to help mitigate against this, but I gather from (now ex-) insiders that this is still a buggy sticking point (ha!) that needs to be solved before release.

Wouldn't high suction give you better traction (ie. by adding an additional downward force to the force of gravity) and hence mitigate any disadvantage of low weight ? Also with sufficiently well-controlled motors you should be able to optimize suction and drive, say to minimize power consumption or maximize speed/vacuum power.

"Wouldn't high suction give you better traction"

Reminds me of the F1 Brabham BT46B "fan car" that sucked itself down to the road using a large engine driven fan at the back of the car:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2.A...

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#39
post #31

The title is almost click baiting. I was hoping to read an in-depth article for the 16years of effort in design the vacuum. Information on how the engineers solve massive problems that would have take many years to do. From the general sense of the article, 16 years was the elapse time from their first version to their release version. However, probably the right level of detail from engadget...

I was expecting a good argument on why it's launched in JA prior to US, UK or EU. Just the fact that Japan is a big adaptor for robotics doesn't make it. Roomba and others have established solid markets for that kind of product outside of Japan already. I hope Dyson can match the demand and will start selling the 360 eye globally soon.

I think the real motivation for a Japan-only launch is that, if things don't work out, they can quietly kill it without experiencing a costly PR fiasco in Western markets. Which is a bit weak for such a "revolutionary" products.

Re: Why Dyson's robot vacuum took 16 years, and why it's headed to Japan first

#40
post #31

The title is almost click baiting. I was hoping to read an in-depth article for the 16years of effort in design the vacuum. Information on how the engineers solve massive problems that would have take many years to do. From the general sense of the article, 16 years was the elapse time from their first version to their release version. However, probably the right level of detail from engadget...

I was expecting a good argument on why it's launched in JA prior to US, UK or EU. Just the fact that Japan is a big adaptor for robotics doesn't make it. Roomba and others have established solid markets for that kind of product outside of Japan already. I hope Dyson can match the demand and will start selling the 360 eye globally soon.

I wonder if part of the decision on the Japan-first launch was due to the Japanese market being the first to show decent interest in the original Dyson vacuums.
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