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Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

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Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#1

Post by gintsmurans »

I hear here and there people saying: "There are no good developers to hire anymore." Well, I am currently looking for a job, and what I have concluded from my little research is that the way companies hire people makes me feel like nobody actually wants me. I have to fill gazillions of fields, I have to go through various kinds of pre-interview processes, like this last one - its an automatic video interviewing system, that records my answers using some pre-recorded videos as questions. Cool system, technically, but I will have to spend hours on this thing. Ideally I would have to send a link to my resume or a pdf (where my name, email, and all the others are), and company would figure out on their own whether they want me or not. If they are interested, we can arrange video meetings or meet in person to see if I am not some weirdo. Like I sent my cv to twitter and they sent me that I am no fit for the position, fair enough. :) I still had to fill forms and write a cover letter. Obviously if I apply for the job, I am interested in the subject and interested in the company and willing to learn if anything beyond my knowledge appears. No need for cover letters. These days a lot of companies offers good salary, health coverage, gym and other benefits, so basically the company should "sell" it self to me - show why I should choose them, not the other way around.

Do you feel the same?

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#2

Post by csmdev »

Welcome to the bucket. I see you're new here. :)

Some tips for next time:

- if they want timed coding challenges or quizzes, skip them

- if they want you to work for a couple of days on a task to see your abilities, skip them

- if they don't accept a Skype interview and insist on going to their headquarters in another city, skip them

- if you're creative and like innovation, you're pretty much fucked because you don't fit the standard way of thinking

There is no shortage and there is no actual demand. Companies just want better people for less money. They say that are no more good developers. But what they mean is: "There are no skilled suckers that will accept our ridiculously low pay".

You need to jump through hoops only so they can get an easier recruiting process. You're no longer a valuable resource. You're just a mindless robot that needs to meet specific keywords. Doesn't matter if you learn, adapt or solve problems. All that matters is how you fit on a very specific recipe. Interviews are the same. Vomit the fizzbuzz solution, some "core programming" buzzwords and maybe two or three generic tasks with stupid loaded questions. And you're hired.

Software developers are now just employed freelancers. Doesn't matter how you think or what you can do. All you need is keywords and experience with highly specific things.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#4

Post by smeyer »

csmdev wrote: post #2

Welcome to the bucket. I see you're new here. :) Some tips for next time: - if they want timed coding challenges or quizzes, skip them - if they want you to work for a couple of days on a task to see your abilities, skip them - if they don't accept a Skype interview and insist on going to their headquarters in another city, skip them - if you're creative and like innovation, you're pretty much fucked because you don'…

Wow, I'm just a recent college grad, but you're experience seems vastly different than mine. That's a much more negative view than the one my friends and I developed going through job searches. I wonder what the most important contributing factors to the differences are.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#6

Post by csmdev »

smeyer wrote: post #4
csmdev wrote: post #2

Welcome to the bucket. I see you're new here. :) Some tips for next time: - if they want timed coding challenges or quizzes, skip them - if they want you to work for a couple of days on a task to see your abilities, skip them - if they don't accept a Skype interview and insist on going to their headquarters in another city, skip them - if you're creative and like innovation, you're pretty much fucked because you don'…

Wow, I'm just a recent college grad, but you're experience seems vastly different than mine. That's a much more negative view than the one my friends and I developed going through job searches. I wonder what the most important contributing factors to the differences are.

You're fresh meat and cheaper. There are no downsides for hiring college grads. You take a low pay and learn the exact technology stack the company is using. But when you decide to change jobs, that's when the real fun starts.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#7

Post by smeyer »

csmdev wrote: post #6
smeyer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I'm just a recent college grad, but you're experience seems vastly different than mine. That's a much more negative view than the one my friends and I developed going through job searches. I wonder what the most important contributing factors to the differences are.

You're fresh meat and cheaper. There are no downsides for hiring college grads. You take a low pay and learn the exact technology stack the company is using. But when you decide to change jobs, that's when the real fun starts.

Fair enough. Although the low pay thing is all relative. I went to a top school with heavy recruiting, so pretty much all of my friends going into tech took salaries in the 80k-200k range (or knowingly took a paycut to work somewhere particular such as taking a paycut for equity at a startup). To some people those salaries are massive and to others they're tiny. I guess I'll have to check back in on this comment thread in a few years.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#8

Post by sjs382 »

I agree, with some reservations.

>> I have to fill gazillions of fields, I have to go through various kinds of pre-interview processes, like this last one - its an automatic video interviewing system, that records my answers using some pre-recorded videos as questions. Cool system, technically, but I will have to spend hours on this thing.

If a potential employer doesn't respect your time during the interview phase, I'd be hard pressed to believe that they would respect your time and boundaries as an employee.

>> Obviously if I apply for the job, I am interested in the subject and interested in the company and willing to learn if anything beyond my knowledge appears. No need for cover letters.

This really isn't obvious, a lot of the time.

As someone who hired another developer recently, I estimate that 1/4 of resumes that came in had zero relevant experience, and I'd wager that MUCH less than 1/4 of the total candidates bothered to do any research on the company at all.

A lot of the "song and dance" of the hiring process really is necessary. Employers just need to remember to respect the time of the candidates.

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#9

Post by nicholas73 »

smeyer wrote: post #7
csmdev wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're fresh meat and cheaper. There are no downsides for hiring college grads. You take a low pay and learn the exact technology stack the company is using. But when you decide to change jobs, that's when the real fun starts.

Fair enough. Although the low pay thing is all relative. I went to a top school with heavy recruiting, so pretty much all of my friends going into tech took salaries in the 80k-200k range (or knowingly took a paycut to work somewhere particular such as taking a paycut for equity at a startup). To some people those salaries are massive and to others they're tiny. I guess I'll have to check back in on this comment thre…

Say that again? 200k for a new grad? Where may I ask?

Re: Ask HN: Looking for a developer?

#10

Post by smeyer »

nicholas73 wrote: post #9
smeyer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Although the low pay thing is all relative. I went to a top school with heavy recruiting, so pretty much all of my friends going into tech took salaries in the 80k-200k range (or knowingly took a paycut to work somewhere particular such as taking a paycut for equity at a startup). To some people those salaries are massive and to others they're tiny. I guess I'll have to check back in on this comment thre…

Say that again? 200k for a new grad? Where may I ask?

I had a friend with a few offers from top places (of the google, facebook, microsoft sort of variety) who ended up taking one for about 100k a year base plus about 500k stock vesting over five years. That was definitely atypical, though, particularly on the stock front.
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