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Where does Ruby go from here?

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Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#21

Post by Pxtl »

JonnieCache wrote: post #11

I don't want to leave ruby, but at the end of the day, it's slow. Jruby is pretty decent, but the clunkiness of the JVM takes the fun out of it. Maybe it's just the lack of a corporation pouring billions into it like google did with V8, but I suspect that ruby can never be fast, due to ObjectSpace and the like. That awesome/insane object model we all like so much is just impossible to optimise. All the other weird sh…

Now I'm starting to wonder if it would be possible to adapt V8 directly to use other dynamically-typed scripting language, like the Parrot project was intended to do. A language parser at the front, V8 in the middle, and the language's standard library in the back.

Node.js demonstrated the power of V8 with an alternate stdlib, perhaps an alternate language in front is possible too? Then again, probably V8 is at the very least heavily entangled with Javascript's type-system.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#22

Post by nchuhoai »

I think the single best thing that Ruby can do in terms of making me even happier is to make concurrent programming easier.

I love Ruby and the Parallel gem (https://github.com/grosser/parallel) makes certain stuff easier, but I feel like every month or so I spend hours just trying to figure out the proper way on how to parallelize

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#23

Post by angersock »

tmorton wrote: post #5

I think this is a great idea. The ruby community is a wonderful thing, and part of that is reflected in the technology. However, the original Agile Manifesto was powerful because it made tradeoffs. "We value X over Y", even when Y is a valuable thing. For this HDD thing to take off, it has to make the similar tradeoffs explicit. For example: We value readable code over runtime performance. We value open-source framew…

That's a really nice feel-good list, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense in several cases:

"We value open-source frameworks and libraries over developing for popular ecosystems."

Most popular ecosystems nowadays are all open-source frameworks and libraries? Unless you're talking about Windows or Mac OSX, I guess?

"We value inclusiveness, diversity, and respect over pure meritocracy."

These are not mutually exclusive goals--even if they are, I'd rather have really good code, even if written by a racist or sexist, than bad code (period). Again, I'm not sure we have to make that choice.

"We value creating wealth over capturing wealth."

What does this even mean? This is a programming language, ffs. Your statement makes sense in, say, the heyday of APL or Smalltalk or some other very vendor-specific language, but that's not quite the case today. Are you talking about not doing data-mining to monetize your fellow man? About not creating yet-another analytics or ad platform? What then, exactly, are you driving at?

"We value teaching, learning, and improving our craft over short-term productivity."

Again, not mutually exclusive. Also, part of learning and improving your craft is knowing when a quick hack is the right answer instead of a full solution.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#24

Post by scottefein12 »

jtbigwoo wrote: post #20

If you're writing a manifesto, you should be able to test future decisions by running them past the criteria in the manifesto. The first four statements are great in that regard, but the next six are a little fuzzy. It might help if the manifesto is clearer on what you don't value. Mission and vision statements are often meaningless because you can stretch a positive statement to include almost anything. The Agile Ma…

Really good points-Definitely will add some contrasts to help clarify. Feel free to submit a pull request with your ideas!

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#25

Post by MoOmer »

gphil wrote: post #9
eik3_de wrote: post #3

> But we have technology needs that aren’t going to always be well served by Ruby What are some examples? I'll start with heavy number crunching (Go/C) and browser-based apps (JS)

Concurrency (Clojure, Erlang)

Not MRI, but JRuby + http://akka.io/

There are also some great gems like Celluloid to help. That said, it's not the same as built-in concurrency.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#26

Post by rboling91 »

Igglyboo wrote: post #6
danso wrote: post #2

I would love Ruby to become the goto "glue" language between different platforms and applications. I confess to not being more than a layperson in Perl, even though Ruby is heavily inspired by it...could Ruby ever replace Perl as the "Swiss-army chainsaw of scripting"? Or are their technical hurdles (such as performance) that would keep Ruby from being that kind of status quo?

Do you have any experience with Python? IMHO I think python fits that niche better than ruby or perl.

I think that both Python and Ruby can serve this purpose well, but both the block and method_missing functionality in Ruby can result in highly flexible and concise APIs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a precise analog in Python to the Proc/Block syntax found in Ruby, maybe with the exception of lambdas. Furthermore, delegation using method_missing can result in APIs/libraries being very concise and readable.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#27

Post by kybernetyk »

tmorton wrote: post #5

I think this is a great idea. The ruby community is a wonderful thing, and part of that is reflected in the technology. However, the original Agile Manifesto was powerful because it made tradeoffs. "We value X over Y", even when Y is a valuable thing. For this HDD thing to take off, it has to make the similar tradeoffs explicit. For example: We value readable code over runtime performance. We value open-source framew…

> We value inclusiveness, diversity, and respect over pure meritocracy.

Heh, until not long ago a "meritocracy" was seen as something good and desirable. Nowadays it seems to be something bad (at least in some circles). Funny how things can change.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#28

Post by wtetzner »

Igglyboo wrote: post #6
danso wrote: post #2

I would love Ruby to become the goto "glue" language between different platforms and applications. I confess to not being more than a layperson in Perl, even though Ruby is heavily inspired by it...could Ruby ever replace Perl as the "Swiss-army chainsaw of scripting"? Or are their technical hurdles (such as performance) that would keep Ruby from being that kind of status quo?

Do you have any experience with Python? IMHO I think python fits that niche better than ruby or perl.

Can you give reasons?

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#29

Post by scottefein12 »

kybernetyk wrote: post #27
tmorton wrote: post #5

I think this is a great idea. The ruby community is a wonderful thing, and part of that is reflected in the technology. However, the original Agile Manifesto was powerful because it made tradeoffs. "We value X over Y", even when Y is a valuable thing. For this HDD thing to take off, it has to make the similar tradeoffs explicit. For example: We value readable code over runtime performance. We value open-source framew…

> We value inclusiveness, diversity, and respect over pure meritocracy. Heh, until not long ago a "meritocracy" was seen as something good and desirable. Nowadays it seems to be something bad (at least in some circles). Funny how things can change.

Meritocracy is good, but not when it creates a homogenous pool of points of view.

Re: Where does Ruby go from here?

#30

Post by FraaJad »

kybernetyk wrote: post #27
tmorton wrote: post #5

I think this is a great idea. The ruby community is a wonderful thing, and part of that is reflected in the technology. However, the original Agile Manifesto was powerful because it made tradeoffs. "We value X over Y", even when Y is a valuable thing. For this HDD thing to take off, it has to make the similar tradeoffs explicit. For example: We value readable code over runtime performance. We value open-source framew…

> We value inclusiveness, diversity, and respect over pure meritocracy. Heh, until not long ago a "meritocracy" was seen as something good and desirable. Nowadays it seems to be something bad (at least in some circles). Funny how things can change.

The guy that coined the word in the 1950s used the word in a negative sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy#Etymology
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