Live data from Hacker News

What's a Mathematician to do?

mathoverflow.net

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#31
post #30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My above comment has started its slow descent into negative karma, and there's probably nothing I can do about it -- what's the point of karma if not to spend it from time to time anyway. I'm currently reading "How Not to Be Wrong" by mathematician Jordan Ellenberg; here's what he has to say about his calling: "Pure mathematics can be a kind of convent, a quiet place safely cut off from the pernicious influences of t…

And now Ellenberg is trying to educate and contribute to the world with his writing, because he has some semi-moral push to do something more than just appreciate that sealed garden. I find cohomology of moduli schemes thrilling too, but it is really cool when you can use a little math to solve someone's real problem, or more often, use a little math to try to dismantle something bad (see mathbabe.org for some econom…

> with his writing

That's right: not with his math. The math he talks about in his book has been around for at least 200 years.

I don't and will never pretend that when you're a mathematician you're forbidden to help others -- that would be meaningless and ridiculous. I react to the "feel good" sentiment that the motivation to do maths should be found in a desire to better the world.

Math is an end in itself; if you want to help the world that should be on your own time.

Ellenberg's book is great.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#32
post #15

> how might you contribute to humanity, and even deeper, to the well-being of the world, by pursuing mathematics I cannot begin to express how much I disagree with this. Mathematics should fight child abuse? And artists enlist in the military to fight despots overseas, by way of art?? Mathematics should be an end in itself. You should be a mathematician, or a stand-up comic, or a painter because it fulfills you , bec…

I'm surprised to see a lot of resistance to your post here on Hacker News. I'm not a mathematician by trade, but I was involved fairly deeply in that world as an undergraduate and I certainly feel that many mathematicians would agree that mathematics is an end in and of itself. Hardy was actually quite adamant about favoring those areas that are least likely to yield real world applications (though as we know from history this back-fired on him quite spectacularly, through no fault of his own).

Most mathematicians that I know or knew contributed to the world and fulfilled that part of them through the rest of their duties as a professor. That means teaching, mentoring, and helping to run an academic department which trains mostly young students who will not be researchers in pure mathematics but rather engineers and so on. It means helping teach a new generation how to think rigorously and energetically and passionately. These are clear (and incredibly important) real-world contributions which are at the same time tangential to the professor's research.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#34
Very insightful comment. My only quibble with it is that some of its points could be better fleshed out. For instance, when they say that it is difficult to intellectually know the impact of our actions, that can be made precise. Human society is a complex system which exhibits chaotic behavior and it is provably impossible to predict the consequences of actions. Turning to 'passion' and intuition because reason can lead one astray, though, seems slightly ludicrous. Passion and intuition are the outgrowth of brain processes and we know that these processes are very flawed in often predictable ways. It is true that reason can not guide you with precision, but also true that intuition will misguide you. We're left in the difficult position of only having 2 poor choices. Reason, at least, can recognize its own limitations and admits for course corrections if negative consequences are seen.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#35
In my humble opinion, the key is to judge oneself accurately. Or get someone to do so.

Ramanujan wrote to Hardy: "I am already a half starving man. To preserve my brains I want food and this is my first consideration. Any sympathetic letter from you will be helpful to me here to get a scholarship either from the university of from the government."

Returning to our world, a tenured university position could provide stability, while a contractual appointment to teach Linear Algebra I & II might end next year - and a journey by stagecoach to the next temporary appointment. In such a situation it may be simpler to write code for a living, while one 'dreamed a dream' on weekends.

The way it normally works, one figures out these answers during the M.A level itself. The trouble starts if one does not & keeps plodding on.

I apologize if this sounds dull & dreary, but I recently gave this advice to a nephew who wanted to study maths after an undergrad degree - he is now safely writing code for a salary & his parents are relieved. Have I stymied the next Ramanujan, perhaps out of a sense of sour grapes at my own inability to prove the Riemann Hypothesis? Both are possible, but unlikely.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#36
post #28

It appears that in part the OP wants to know how to do "original" mathematics. Well, to raise the bar a little, the usual criteria for publication are new, correct, and significant. So, the OP was asking about "new", but likely he will also want to know about "correct" and "significant". Okay. My suggestion is to do applied math . How? There is a famous recipe for rabbit stew that starts out, "First catch a rabbit".…

I just looked up Luenberger's book. Seems like a nice book.

Can you, please, post all the books(and maybe papers) you think are mathematical masterpieces? Subject doesn't matter, only the exposition.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#37

In my humble opinion, the key is to judge oneself accurately. Or get someone to do so. Ramanujan wrote to Hardy: "I am already a half starving man. To preserve my brains I want food and this is my first consideration. Any sympathetic letter from you will be helpful to me here to get a scholarship either from the university of from the government." Returning to our world, a tenured university position could provide st…

You know you're being idealistic as well because ideally it's better to have money than not.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#38
post #15

> how might you contribute to humanity, and even deeper, to the well-being of the world, by pursuing mathematics I cannot begin to express how much I disagree with this. Mathematics should fight child abuse? And artists enlist in the military to fight despots overseas, by way of art?? Mathematics should be an end in itself. You should be a mathematician, or a stand-up comic, or a painter because it fulfills you , bec…

I think you missed a couple of things:

1. Mathematics does fight child abuse. Statistics and analsysis provide insight and understanding into a problem and the outcomes of working with it. Look at the NHS' HSCIC for example which actually looks for this sort of thing: http://www.hscic.gov.uk/

2. Art does indeed fight despots overseas. Look at modern propaganda and the Eastern Bloc socialist and communist art for example. Then there's music and ceremonyl; both arts as well. Even typography foundries are enlisted.

It's all glued together at the core, inseparable from morals which emerges from psychology which is a science, ultimately constrained by mathematics.

Do it because you like it, but it's everything so you can't lose.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#39

In my humble opinion, the key is to judge oneself accurately. Or get someone to do so. Ramanujan wrote to Hardy: "I am already a half starving man. To preserve my brains I want food and this is my first consideration. Any sympathetic letter from you will be helpful to me here to get a scholarship either from the university of from the government." Returning to our world, a tenured university position could provide st…

I need to comment about going into academia. The end goal being to contribute to math/science in some meaningful way by working on theoretical research full time.

I'm in my 6th year of my PhD as a theoretical physicist. I have been rejected for ever prestigious fellowship and tenure track position I have applied for, my academic career is dead. As I finish my PhD I'll start applying for national lab and industry positions and likely end up right next to your nephew writing code somewhere. I will never contribute in any significant way to the world of theoretical physics.

Do I regret it? Hell no! At least I tried! I loved so much of my graduate school experience and I got to try my hand at real research, teach huge classes of undergrads about my favorite topics and travel all over the country giving talks at conferences.

I imagine going to graduate school is a lot like starting up your own business, its a high risk/reward situation. And if you do succeed you get huge grants, a tenure track position, and wonderful students to work with. Failure means going back to industry with the everyone else (is that so bad?).

If I had skipped grad school and moved straight to industry (I've had multiple internships in the valley) I would certainly be much further ahead, both financially and in terms of job security. But I would have missed out on an important life experience and more importantly I never would have made my attempt to contribute to math/science.

Re: What's a Mathematician to do?

#40
post #15

> how might you contribute to humanity, and even deeper, to the well-being of the world, by pursuing mathematics I cannot begin to express how much I disagree with this. Mathematics should fight child abuse? And artists enlist in the military to fight despots overseas, by way of art?? Mathematics should be an end in itself. You should be a mathematician, or a stand-up comic, or a painter because it fulfills you , bec…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN