Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too • Hacker News Board

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#11

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 1:58 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #2

Its odd to talk about net neutrality as something that might "perish" as if it ever existed for more than the couple of years before the FCC's order was struck down.

> Its odd to talk about net neutrality as something that might "perish" as if it ever existed for more than the couple of years before the FCC's order was struck down.

The FCC Order was motivated by a desire to preserve what was seen by many as the status quo ante that was, at the time the order was adopted, perceived to be under threat as big providers began discriminating against certain remote endpoints and applications. Mandated neutrality may only have existed for a short time, but the mandate wasn't the origin of neutrality it was an effort to preserve/restore what was perceived as pre-existing neutrality

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#12

Post by Afforess » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:00 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #7

We haven't had net "neutrality" in the history of the internet and call me crazy, but it seems to have done just fine. "Net Neutrality is just left wing populism run amok" http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/07/eff-lies-about-netneutrali...

You are so misinformed as to be a public menace.

Edit: to downvoters, menace means one who causes peril. How is my usage incorrect? The parent is spreading incorrect facts and encouraging internet fast lanes. That is perilous.

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#13

Post by praptak » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:01 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #7

We haven't had net "neutrality" in the history of the internet and call me crazy, but it seems to have done just fine. "Net Neutrality is just left wing populism run amok" http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/07/eff-lies-about-netneutrali...

Of course we had it. Neutrality was the de facto state of the internet pretty much from the start. We just didn't have laws against greedy fuckers destroying it for own profit.

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#14

Post by bazzargh » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:02 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #4

This is going to draw a lot of negative points here, but its important to note that the issue of net neutrality is an issue because of the lack of competition in the states. If BT (largest ISP in the UK) tried to pull any of the stuff that's been going on, they would have been fined, and users would have left in droves. All the major ISPs here in the UK have multiple CDN node on the edge of their network, simply beca…

But we have had this battle in the UK, and not just with BT. Most of the ISPs have at some point or other been accused of throttling BBC's iPlayer: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2009/06/02/why-bts-not-the-bigg...

The UK government was against Net Neutrality legislation: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2010/11/17/uk-government-su...

And again in 2011: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2011/ed-vaizey%E2%80%99...

This eventually led to consultation in 2012 by Neelie Kroes, EU Commissioner for Competition, and we got legislation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26865869

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#15

Post by revo13 » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:08 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #7

We haven't had net "neutrality" in the history of the internet and call me crazy, but it seems to have done just fine. "Net Neutrality is just left wing populism run amok" http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/07/eff-lies-about-netneutrali...

I wouldn't describe the current treatment of Netflix by numerous service providers as "Fine". I am on AT&T Uverse and I have to route my Netflix traffic through a private VPN service in order to get HD quality video. Why? Because AT&T is holding me hostage, in the interest of negotiating with Netflix on the other side of the table for extortion fees. I pay for a certain level of access to the Internet. I expect to be able to access ANY site or service without the telecom getting in the way of that. I dread the day where I have to pay AT&T additional fees on top of my base internet package to access Netflix fast (call it the AT&T Internet Movie Package). Or alternatively, Netflix charges me a surcharge on my bill because I am an AT&T subscriber.

I really can't believe you are so deluded to think that there is not a problem brewing here that has the potential to ruin the Internet as we know it (both as a consumer and a business owner).

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#16

Post by GVIrish » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:08 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #4

This is going to draw a lot of negative points here, but its important to note that the issue of net neutrality is an issue because of the lack of competition in the states. If BT (largest ISP in the UK) tried to pull any of the stuff that's been going on, they would have been fined, and users would have left in droves. All the major ISPs here in the UK have multiple CDN node on the edge of their network, simply beca…

While ISP monopolies are a big part of the problem, even if there were competition, that would not ensure net neutrality.

After all, if all of ISP companies decided that they could make metric tons of money by gating off the internet, and there were no laws against it, you could potentially end up with a situation where every ISP is charging ransom.

Look at mobile telcos and text message charges. For a long time there every mobile provider was charging exorbitant rates for text messages because it was highly profitable and everyone was doing it. Eventually newcomers started offering free text packages, and maybe that's what would happen with ISP's. But it is not at all a given, especially because the barriers to entry to the market are so high.

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#17

Post by wdewind » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:13 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #7

We haven't had net "neutrality" in the history of the internet and call me crazy, but it seems to have done just fine. "Net Neutrality is just left wing populism run amok" http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/07/eff-lies-about-netneutrali...

That's a really great blog post. Thanks for sharing it. I encourage everyone to read it - it's not long and may open your mind about net neutrality a bit.

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#18

Post by mikeash » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:15 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #4

This is going to draw a lot of negative points here, but its important to note that the issue of net neutrality is an issue because of the lack of competition in the states. If BT (largest ISP in the UK) tried to pull any of the stuff that's been going on, they would have been fined, and users would have left in droves. All the major ISPs here in the UK have multiple CDN node on the edge of their network, simply beca…

The thing is, the problem of net neutrality has a pretty clear solution. You force companies to carry all traffic equally, give no special treatment, etc. It's not perfect, but it works.

What's the solution to the problem of a lack of competition?

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#19

Post by sararschreiber » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:17 PM UTC

this amused me, because I remembered this: http://www.slideshare.net/danmckinley/design-for-continuous-... Slide 42 onwards talks about etsy a/b testing "improvements" in speed and the effect on sales: "Meh" is the conclusion.

Re: Etsy CEO to Businesses: If Net Neutrality Perishes, We Will Too

#20

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 04, 2014, 2:17 PM UTC

viggity wrote: post #7

We haven't had net "neutrality" in the history of the internet and call me crazy, but it seems to have done just fine. "Net Neutrality is just left wing populism run amok" http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/07/eff-lies-about-netneutrali...

[deleted]