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The Unexotic Underclass

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Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#171

Post by orangecat »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #109
vixen99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with most issues, there are costs and benefits with the minimum wage. It appears that Norway, Austria and Germany, amongst others, do not see a balance in favor of the benefits. Unsurprisingly their unemployment rates are low. Were I useless to an employer (as once I was) I would rather work for some wage (as I did) rather than exist (and get used to existing) on handouts from the wealth created by other tax payer…

> It appears that Norway, Austria and Germany, amongst others, do not see a balance in favor of the benefits. Germany just approved a minimum wage. > Unsurprisingly their unemployment rates are low. I have never bought this argument. A business hires employees because it has some amount of work it needs to be done. The amount of work to be done doesn't change as a function of how much workers are paid. Arguing that t…

The amount of work to be done doesn't change as a function of how much workers are paid.

Whether the work can be profitably done certainly can change.

Arguing that the minimum wage causes meaningful increase in unemployment is just as silly as arguing that paying CEOs huge salaries does.

Could we make it $50/hour with no employment effects?

You can argue that a minimum wage makes things more expensive: that's likely true, but I'm okay with that.

Which means the minimum wage is indirect welfare that redistributes money to low-skilled workers by taking it from some combination of business owners, employees, and customers. That's strictly less efficient than just giving low-income workers extra money, especially since many of the customers now facing higher prices are themselves poor.

I agree though that we as taxpayers should not be required to subsidize corporations unwilling to pay employees livable wages.

This has never made any sense to me. If Walmart pays a cashier $10/hour, they're helping him more than you are, but somehow they're the bad guy.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#172

Post by lotsofpulp »

nilkn wrote: post #135
lotsofpulp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Want to make a ton of money 1 year from today and have good credit? Spend your days with an MLS subscription finding under-priced homes to flip in a couple weeks. You'll be a millionaire in a year I guarantee it. Considering only 3% of Americans are millionaires, and assuming >3% of Americans would like to be millionaires, in order for your statement to be valid is if whatever you wrote was some sort of never before…

The problem is capital. It takes a lot of capital to flip homes. Most of the people I know are in a pretty good spot financially, but almost none of them could afford to flip homes unless they got a really good deal on a teardown and they did all the renovation manually (and you're certainly not going to become a millionaire in one year at that pace).

How about the skill and risk involved in being able to determine what is "under-priced"? The way I'm reading these posts, it seems as if all it takes to make money is money (at least in flipping homes).

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#173

Post by nickthemagicman »

There's a lot of people interested in helping the poor. There's humongous social and political barriers that make it almost impossible.

Ideas I have:

-Make a centralized site for homeless people to find resources. At the moment they're all scattered.

-Make an easy to use food stamp app.

-Ride sharing apps

-Apps showing where buses are and how far away they are so poor people aren't just sitting at the bus stop waiting.

-and there's a lot more.

However a quick look at all these requires technological literacy by the poor, governmental cooperation, or both.

It's not just an easy tech problem to solve. It's a social problem.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#174

Post by aianus »

jarek wrote: post #169
aianus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All progress is aimed at the rich. The first people with light bulbs were rich, the first people with indoor plumbing were rich, the first people with cell phones and automobiles were rich, etc, etc. It's not nearly as much fun to solve poor people's problems since often the solutions already exist; they just can't afford or otherwise access them.

> All progress is aimed at the rich Oh what tosh. Most of brand new inventions might be aimed at the rich. After that, most iterative improvement is aimed at making the invention cheaper, more reliable, and easier to manufacture - i.e., gradually more accessible to poor people. What separates a Benz Patent Motorwagen from a Civic today if not a whole ton of progress?

You're right, I used the wrong word. Doesn't change the fact that working on something revolutionary is a lot more fun than working on something iterative. It's also more accessible to individual entrepreneurs whereas iterative progress is more of a bigco domain.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#175

Post by nilkn »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #172
nilkn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is capital. It takes a lot of capital to flip homes. Most of the people I know are in a pretty good spot financially, but almost none of them could afford to flip homes unless they got a really good deal on a teardown and they did all the renovation manually (and you're certainly not going to become a millionaire in one year at that pace).

How about the skill and risk involved in being able to determine what is "under-priced"? The way I'm reading these posts, it seems as if all it takes to make money is money (at least in flipping homes).

Perhaps I'm thinking of a different notion of flipping homes. I might be the one confused here.

I was thinking of buying old homes, possibly teardowns, in a rapidly up-and-coming area, renovating them, and then reselling them at a much higher price. I feel like there's less risk involved here as long as you have strong data showing the area is becoming popular and you can act quickly (i.e., before the boom ends).

If you want to simply isolate an underpriced house, buy it, sit on it doing nothing, and then sell it a few months later for twice what you paid, then I agree -- a considerable amount of skill would be needed.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#176

Post by aianus »

tinco wrote: post #76

I would really love to cater to the unexotic underclass, but how? I mean he goes on and on about how much opportunity there is, but I don't see it. I know how to get 500 white liberal suburbanite young males to pay me $10 per month. They have the money and they love to spend it on tech and gadgetry that makes their lives even more comfortable. But single house mothers? Poor Romanians? How would I even get them to pay…

You can innovate to sell them something they're already buying or a substitute but cheaper.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#177

Post by jarek »

aianus wrote: post #174
jarek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All progress is aimed at the rich Oh what tosh. Most of brand new inventions might be aimed at the rich. After that, most iterative improvement is aimed at making the invention cheaper, more reliable, and easier to manufacture - i.e., gradually more accessible to poor people. What separates a Benz Patent Motorwagen from a Civic today if not a whole ton of progress?

You're right, I used the wrong word. Doesn't change the fact that working on something revolutionary is a lot more fun than working on something iterative. It's also more accessible to individual entrepreneurs whereas iterative progress is more of a bigco domain.

> Doesn't change the fact that working on something revolutionary is a lot more fun than working on something iterative. It's also more accessible to individual entrepreneurs whereas iterative progress is more of a bigco domain.

Must be news to all these tinkerers playing with and improving their toy drones and people contributing to Linux rather than writing their own kernel

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#178

Post by aianus »

burgers wrote: post #29

I can sum this up so very simply. The way to make the most money is to get as close to money as possible. Hence why finance is such a lucrative career. We are seeing the obvious flaws of capitalism now that capital is no longer tied to low skill labor for manufacturing. Want to make a ton of money 1 year from today and have good credit? Spend your days with an MLS subscription finding under-priced homes to flip in a…

If it's that easy why don't you crank up the leverage and become a billionaire? Hey, it's guaranteed.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#179

Post by 616c »

julian_t wrote: post #65
incision wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'Commute to work? Apply for benefits? Schedule appointments with doctors? Successfully keep those appointments? Keep tabs on kids while working/errands? A smart phone makes you better.' Spot on. Years ago, I maintained a couple of desktops in a sort of 'job center' where people could submit electronic applications for various low-end, entry-level positions. The most common issue - no email address. Second most commo…

> The most common issue - no email address. Second most common - has email, but has to take the bus to the library to check it. Absolutely. We have come to know a couple of guys, one ex-homeless, who have real troubles here. We lent one an old iPad and that, together will free wifi in coffee shops and malls, has enabled him to talk to government agencies and job centers.

I left the United States to work abroad too soon to get into the project, but Washington DC (if you are in that area) Public Libraries had a very impressive computer literacy program where people were taught all kinds of the skills. I taught for a while.

http://dclibrary.org/services/computer

Things like this will make a big difference. The email thing, as an IT guy full-time, blew my mimd. Many of my students were not stereotyped homeless people, but frustrated people with low incomes and dead end jobs. Some of them really lit up as you showed them how to spend all free time that could be invested in free education and researching better job opportunties. I only wish I had stayed longer volunteering there to make a real difference.

I hope other places start digital literacy courses.

Re: The Unexotic Underclass

#180

Post by marcosdumay »

refurb wrote: post #122
onion2k wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine I give you $20. Then I tell you that you have to spend all of that $20 on x, y, and z. Are you penniless? Yes. You have no money. All of the government's $3.4 trillion is budgeted for, allocated and spent. What makes the government penniless is the fact that they can't do anything else because they have no budget for it.

But the gov't creates the budget. They choose what to spend that $20 on.

And then we go into the usual falacy. No governemnt is a single coherent entity.

The people creating the budget aren't the ones doing the spending. And the ones planning the outcome of the spending are even a thrid, disjunct group.

If you try to sell something to the first group, you'll discover they are separated from the outcome by (at least) two layers of intermediaries, and probably have no idea about the problem. If you try to sell it to the third group, you'll discover that they have no power at all to put resources onto a solution. And if you try to sell it to the second group, you'll discover that they only care about accounting, and have no desire do think about resource allocation or real-world problems.

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