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Failing the startup game at Unbabel

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Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#151

Post by FollowSteph3 »

spinlock wrote: post #128
FollowSteph3 wrote: post #46

I hate to say this but whenever you relocate that is your decision. The company isn't really in any obligations to keep you or pay your move back unless you pre-negotiate that either with a signing bonus or as a clause in your contract. Generally a relocation is offset with a signing bonus and higher salary which is why the risk is worth it, but never doubt that it's a risk you have to take. I know because I've done…

OP had a 3 month contract which was not honored (according to this side of the story). That's why he lost his deposit on the apartment that he'd let for 3 months.

But did it have an early termination clause he omitted. Every single contract I've seen has an early termination clause in it.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#152

Post by FollowSteph3 »

spinlock wrote: post #128
FollowSteph3 wrote: post #46

I hate to say this but whenever you relocate that is your decision. The company isn't really in any obligations to keep you or pay your move back unless you pre-negotiate that either with a signing bonus or as a clause in your contract. Generally a relocation is offset with a signing bonus and higher salary which is why the risk is worth it, but never doubt that it's a risk you have to take. I know because I've done…

OP had a 3 month contract which was not honored (according to this side of the story). That's why he lost his deposit on the apartment that he'd let for 3 months.

I just read the comment by the company and there was an early termination clause...

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#153

Post by mahyarm »

adambenayoun wrote: post #30
malanj wrote: post #11

It seems that given Andreas' move to join the startup - if his explanation is accurate and complete - the level of responsibility of the founders does increase. I've been a founder asking people to move before and I've always felt that it adds a significant extra responsibility. You need to be quite a lot more certain it'll be a good fit before asking someone to move to join your company. In my mind "culture fit" is…

Moving across continents to work for a company which you're not sure it'll work well with them is a too big risk to take to be honest. I'm a founder of a startup and I would only move someone across the continents after working with him for a while. For example I would fly him over for a month to work for us to see if there's a fit (without asking him to leave everything yet), covering his expenses, flights and anyth…

That is why I said I wasn't interested in moving to my current company unless I had some sort of guarantee about being able to find a new job, since it would be horrible if I got dropped a month later.

They said I would be able to stick around for a few months until I found another job, which they would be sure I would be able to find very quickly in SV. Now I've been working with them for 3 years.

The details were actually written down, so it wasn't an informal contract, but it's been 3 years.

Also remote trial work should be an option for these kinds of workers. Making your company remote worker compatible will force many best practices from the start at your company.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#154

Post by k__ »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #148
vasco_ wrote: post #131

For the record I am a co-founder and CEO of Unbabel. I feel that I should respond to these allegations. 1 - The contract we had with Andreas was full time employee contract. The first three months were "at will" which means that either one was free to terminate the relation at any time. We have a signed contract to prove it and I am happy to share a sample of the contract to anyone that wants. When we fired him, we n…

I'm always surprised when a company is so quick to publicly comment on a sensitive personnel matter, but that said, it's interesting to note what this response doesn't contain. The OP basically called into question the quality and stability of Unbabel's platform ("The code was a tangled mess of mindless duplication, half-implemented features and misleading comments. Of the few automated tests that existed, most didn'…

"the OP may have been terminated because he recognized these things"

He wouldn't be the first one.

I had a bunch of jobs, where I had to work with crappy code and have seen many people getting "terminated" because they prefered to complain about it.

I complained too, but I worked with what was given, when it didn't change after a few years (most of these "the whole system is fucked up changes don't come easy) I just quit.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#155

Post by pavlov »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #148
vasco_ wrote: post #131

For the record I am a co-founder and CEO of Unbabel. I feel that I should respond to these allegations. 1 - The contract we had with Andreas was full time employee contract. The first three months were "at will" which means that either one was free to terminate the relation at any time. We have a signed contract to prove it and I am happy to share a sample of the contract to anyone that wants. When we fired him, we n…

I'm always surprised when a company is so quick to publicly comment on a sensitive personnel matter, but that said, it's interesting to note what this response doesn't contain. The OP basically called into question the quality and stability of Unbabel's platform ("The code was a tangled mess of mindless duplication, half-implemented features and misleading comments. Of the few automated tests that existed, most didn'…

I don't know if it's worth going on the defensive about that kind of stuff.

If the founder made an in-depth reply explaining that "No, we don't suck, we use language X, framework Y and methodology Z", then that just opens up a pointless side discussion about whether the X+Y+Z stack sucks, and how much exactly.

All that will remain in search engines, so in a few years' time the company will appear in public searches as a company that uses X+Y+Z even if they have moved on.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#156

Post by adambenayoun »

seestheday wrote: post #69
adambenayoun wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving across continents to work for a company which you're not sure it'll work well with them is a too big risk to take to be honest. I'm a founder of a startup and I would only move someone across the continents after working with him for a while. For example I would fly him over for a month to work for us to see if there's a fit (without asking him to leave everything yet), covering his expenses, flights and anyth…

How many people are realistically willing to do a trial for a month? Developers are in demand. They likely already have a job.

That's a legit question and I don't know the answer. However how is it different from hiring someone and letting him go after a month if you think he's not a good fit? The mention of a month of bootcamp or "orientation" is mainly to set expectations.

You should always hire the best candidate which you think will work out but that month allow you to set the right phase, this is a month where you both give the best to make that relationship work - orientation, pairing, documentation, short meetings to discuss potential roadblocks or issues.

All startups usually do this - I just consider it's a good practice to say it out loud that there's a period where we both find out if we want to keep working together.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#157

Post by a_c_s »

annnnd wrote: post #72

There is a slight point in founders' favor - sometimes when you need to get out and just get the stuff done, you don't write test for every non-essential piece of code. You also just copy/paste that controller, because you know you will probably throw most of the code away anyway. All you want is to know if the business model works. After all, you are not building core systems for a financial institution. And you kno…

Fired after 1 month but paid for 1.5 months: seems generous to me.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#158

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

pavlov wrote: post #155
7Figures2Commas wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised when a company is so quick to publicly comment on a sensitive personnel matter, but that said, it's interesting to note what this response doesn't contain. The OP basically called into question the quality and stability of Unbabel's platform ("The code was a tangled mess of mindless duplication, half-implemented features and misleading comments. Of the few automated tests that existed, most didn'…

I don't know if it's worth going on the defensive about that kind of stuff. If the founder made an in-depth reply explaining that "No, we don't suck, we use language X, framework Y and methodology Z", then that just opens up a pointless side discussion about whether the X+Y+Z stack sucks, and how much exactly. All that will remain in search engines, so in a few years' time the company will appear in public searches a…

You're missing the point: if you're going to respond to a matter like this publicly, you had better respond substantively. Anything less can have the effect of making the claims against you seem more credible.

Note that this wasn't a debate about languages, frameworks or methodologies. The OP flat out referred to the company's code as "tangled mess of mindless duplication, half-implemented features and misleading comments" and claimed that only one employee "knew anything about the system." The response here mentions surfing on Wednesday but doesn't dispute any of the OP's claims about the state of the company's technology and technology organization. That looks horrible.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#159

Post by prawn »

morgante wrote: post #110
rtpg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time conjuring up much sympathy for Unbabel in this situation. Work is work, and this person has come to one of the only recourses. Also, informing the community that a company doesn't seem to value the work of its employees should be valued.

> Work is work I agree, but in what way is Unbabel not compensating for the work actually done? They just prematurely said no more work would be done for them.

Depends how you're defining work. There's work (production at the desk) and there's work (moving to take up a job, social life with colleagues, all the decisions that come with employment).

As a very small scale employer, I feel responsible for my employee(s). They depend on me for rent payments, mortgages, savings and so on. I think that responsibility extends further for someone moving country to join your company.

I think retaining enough savings to stay fed is on the employee and don't buy that likely exaggeration, but with early termination like this, I think an employer should be looking to accommodate a foreign employee where they can, at least provide a bit more warning or mediation.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#160

Post by matthieu88 »

vasco_ wrote: post #131

For the record I am a co-founder and CEO of Unbabel. I feel that I should respond to these allegations. 1 - The contract we had with Andreas was full time employee contract. The first three months were "at will" which means that either one was free to terminate the relation at any time. We have a signed contract to prove it and I am happy to share a sample of the contract to anyone that wants. When we fired him, we n…

Hard to believe the skill acusations when there's such a glass house. In terms of rookie mistakes they sure make a lot http://unbabel.co/admin (django admin exposed). http://dev.unbabel.com/ (django dev toolbar with delicate details on settings and so on). So Andreas,don't bother,even these guys are well funded,in terms of python and django skills i wouldn't enjoy work here
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