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Failing the startup game at Unbabel

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Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#21

Post by richardwhiuk »

andystannard wrote: post #8

Hi I think they are legally able to do this from my understanding of EU law. It sucks especially if you have had to relocate for the job but you obviously were not enjoying working for them. It sounds as if the lead dev might be feeling overprotective of his own work and does not want to let go. I am sure you will find another job easily enough as good devs are in demand. Hopefully at a place where you are valued and…

If the contract has a minimum period, then they have to show ' cause' when firing someone.

Not being a good fit won't be good enough. If it was, the minimum period in a contract wouldn't be worth anything as that's easy for an employer to say with no backup.

This issue is a major difference between typical contracts in the EU and the at will employment status which is typical in the US. It makes it 'easier' for startups to operate in the US, and means that international companies will hire slower in the EU, but are more likely to let US staff go if they have to change staffing levels quickly.

Depending on the rental contract - if it's anything like the UK, the author may have a cause of action against the landlord as well - normally there's a minimum notice period.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#22

Post by kfk »

I see a clear lack of management, communication and leadership skills here. For how meaningless those words might seem here on HN, it really shows when startup founders do not have them. And it's not even a culture fit issue, dealing with people that are not a 100% fit is part of the challenge of managing a business.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#23

Post by bhouston »

malanj wrote: post #11

It seems that given Andreas' move to join the startup - if his explanation is accurate and complete - the level of responsibility of the founders does increase. I've been a founder asking people to move before and I've always felt that it adds a significant extra responsibility. You need to be quite a lot more certain it'll be a good fit before asking someone to move to join your company. In my mind "culture fit" is…

As a company founder, I have never had someone move to take a job at my company. The reasons are #1, it is a lot more expensive to hire because most people want you to cover moving costs, and #2, if the person doesn't work out during the three months probationary period (this is standard in Ontario, Canada) I would be screwing them over if I laid them off (and if I didn't lay them off, it would be screwing over the company.)

If we had more robust hiring practices, and more money, maybe it would be better. But for now hiring out of town while requiring them to move (as opposed to working remotely, which has worked for employees) is horribly risky for all involved.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#24

Post by tomp »

jacquesm wrote: post #13
malanj wrote: post #11

It seems that given Andreas' move to join the startup - if his explanation is accurate and complete - the level of responsibility of the founders does increase. I've been a founder asking people to move before and I've always felt that it adds a significant extra responsibility. You need to be quite a lot more certain it'll be a good fit before asking someone to move to join your company. In my mind "culture fit" is…

> I've been a founder asking people to move before and I've always felt that it adds a significant extra responsibility. Exactly. If you ask people to do things outside the normal employment environment then you are partly responsible to make them whole if thing do not work out. And if you can't do that then don't get people to move halfway across the continent for you, especially not without doing more work to see i…

If I was hiring developers, I wouldn't care much where they come from - if someone from Sweden wants to come to Portugal, I wouldn't stop them, but on the other hand I wouldn't give them extra assistance/benefits just because they're relocating (assuming that (1) there was enough local talent available, and (2) the company was a startup, not an established company with loads of cash).

On the other hand, if I was hiring developers, I would stick to the contract.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#25

Post by klawed »

TomGullen wrote: post #14
onion2k wrote: post #7

A really big problem for startups lies in attracting high quality coding talent. There aren't many experienced developers who're in a position to take the necessary risk joining a startup and working for a reduced income for a while. Consequently any startup that screws over a developer isn't just hurting their own rep, but they're damaging the chance of success of every other startup by reducing the size of the tale…

> there's still a lesson in it for every startup founder - developers are necessary and important to your success so being nice (especially if the relationship isn't going well) is a Good Idea. If a founder is only being nice to someone because it's a good idea and in their interest, they are an asshole. It's not a lesson you should need to teach anyone.

>It's not a lesson you should need to teach anyone. Perhaps most of us (the non-assholes?) learn this at such a young age that we don't even remember learning it. But I do believe, because I've seen it happen and done it myself, to varying degrees, that people CAN learn this later in life and change bad behavior (even if it's initially for superficial reasons like a desire to see a venture succeed).

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#26

Post by ransom1538 »

Ok. I have been hacking in startups for 10 years or so. A few rules to note. 1) Startups almost always fail. Pretty much assume at any point you can be let go for any reason. If you can't afford to blow 3 months of salary and be paid in "promise" - don't do it. 2) Startups are not for everyone. Enjoy good code? Like a peaceful atmosphere? Need comments? Love structure and strategy? Welp - you will fail at a startup. In my 10 years: startups are trench warfare with company ending deadlines. As an exercise: Try borrowing money from your best friend and not paying it back. 3) Legal. You are going to sue a former employer? What a great way of ruining your future. Future employers will avoid you like the plague. Try starting a board meeting with: "Our newest employee is in a legal battle with their former employer...".

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#27

Post by pkorzeniewski »

That's why I'm very suspicious when it comes to stories about "wonderful work environment" at startups. I'm sure there are quite few startups where people really like to work, but I've a feeling most startups are chaotic, unorganised and ego-driven by the founders. To me it's the extreme opposite of big corporations, where everything is over-managed and run by well-defined processes, whicih may be sometimes irritaing, but at least you (usually) know what you're standing on.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#28

Post by mpclark »

kfk wrote: post #22

I see a clear lack of management, communication and leadership skills here. For how meaningless those words might seem here on HN, it really shows when startup founders do not have them. And it's not even a culture fit issue, dealing with people that are not a 100% fit is part of the challenge of managing a business.

Yes. Allowing situations like this to arise is an indicator of future troubles.

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#29

Post by yuribit »

homakov wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe just not a lot of savings.

Or maybe he wants his story to sound more dramatic >So here I am, back where I started with barely enough money to eat. Come on, you're 37 years old Java professional from Sweden (which is not Nigeria or something). Even unemployed people there get more money which I used to make being programmer. > When I informed my landlord that I wouldn't be able to stay as long as planned she kicked me out of the apartment What,…

Completely agree, where are all the money you earned in the last 16 years?

Re: Failing the startup game at Unbabel

#30

Post by adambenayoun »

malanj wrote: post #11

It seems that given Andreas' move to join the startup - if his explanation is accurate and complete - the level of responsibility of the founders does increase. I've been a founder asking people to move before and I've always felt that it adds a significant extra responsibility. You need to be quite a lot more certain it'll be a good fit before asking someone to move to join your company. In my mind "culture fit" is…

Moving across continents to work for a company which you're not sure it'll work well with them is a too big risk to take to be honest.

I'm a founder of a startup and I would only move someone across the continents after working with him for a while. For example I would fly him over for a month to work for us to see if there's a fit (without asking him to leave everything yet), covering his expenses, flights and anything other expense he would incur.

I understand if the startup is paying for relocating you but you're still taking a big risk, there's always the chance that you would be let go if you're not a good fit.

How other are mitigating this risk? Is working remotely for a couple of weeks/months with occasional flying viable and moving only after you spent some time with the company viable for others here?

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