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Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#61

Post by pjmlp »

jasonisalive wrote: post #5
userbinator wrote: post #4

Google has started showing old versions of its search page to people using out-of-date versions of some web browsers. On the other hand, many of the people using older versions of browsers would probably be the same ones who don't like the changes Google's made to its pages. As someone who regularly uses various browsers (including text-based), I have a very strong opinion on this: I've noticed the "you must use brow…

I disagree. The marginalising, discriminatory effects of web developers using the state of the art is critical to moving web technology forward as quickly as possible. By penalising users who use antiquated browsers or computing devices, it helps create pressure and demand for: a) more affordable modern computing devices b) more intelligent auto-updating browsing software c) more educated and engaged consumers Mollyc…

Ah, you mean the desktop we already enjoy!

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#62

Post by pjmlp »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #33
icantthinkofone wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've noticed the "you must use browser X, Y, or Z" trend become more prevalent over the years..." I believe what you are actually seeing is the opposite of "Don't use IE". Instead they are saying "Use anything but IE" (best viewed in Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera). And that's good advice.

I've adopted the "I don't care if you use IE" mentality. I'm on OS X - if a browser doesn't run there, to hell with them. I'm not wasting the money to buy an OS I can't stand just to test a browser. I'm also not wasting time having to reinstall a VM every 30 days for the same reason. When MS makes it painless to run IE on a Mac, then I'll actively test against it. I might not try to actively break it, but I'm not goi…

Good to you. I also don't test Safari.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#63

Post by pjmlp »

nirvdrum wrote: post #47
lelandbatey wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern browser features have, like all change in the world, opened up some potentially problematic paths. But your frustration is misguided. Be upset with the people/sites that abandon standards or suck up processing power for an article. I'm curious what prompts this frustration?

The idea of the Web as it was sold to many of us was that it allowed for cross-platform access without having to deal with hardware requirements or DLL hell. The best part, was it was completely open and you didn't need to constantly upgrade because the technology degraded. Nowadays, if you run a browser older than 6 weeks old, you're treated with utter disdain by a non-insignificant portion of web developers. We've…

This only happens because it was a broken idea to start with.

The web should be about interactive documents, not trying to bend it into a color version of VT100s.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#64

Post by DanBC »

vonklaus wrote: post #29
radmuzom wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that people refuse to update. At work, we have not yet upgraded from XP so nothing above IE8 works here - you are not allowed to install any software on your own so no Firefox. If news sites, where the primary content should be text and maybe a couple of images, don't work because they require all kinds of fancy "modern web" features - then it is not a problem with users but a problem with the developers of…

while i respect that you personally are constrained in this respect, support for XP has ended. Chronologically, google inc was founded ~3 years before XP was released and it wasn't mainstream on inception. So the point being when XP was released like 13 years ago, it enjoyed mass audience. Now there have been several iterations of windows and according to mores law 10 years forward see more innovation than the preced…

I would fault my phone company if I could no longer make and recieve phone calls and send and receive SMS text messages.

And it's not just about stuff not working on simple machines - many sites are awful to use on recent smart phones and recent OSs because they have only been tested on local networks on development machines. No one has tested them on normal machines.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#65

Post by klez »

vonklaus wrote: post #29
radmuzom wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that people refuse to update. At work, we have not yet upgraded from XP so nothing above IE8 works here - you are not allowed to install any software on your own so no Firefox. If news sites, where the primary content should be text and maybe a couple of images, don't work because they require all kinds of fancy "modern web" features - then it is not a problem with users but a problem with the developers of…

while i respect that you personally are constrained in this respect, support for XP has ended. Chronologically, google inc was founded ~3 years before XP was released and it wasn't mainstream on inception. So the point being when XP was released like 13 years ago, it enjoyed mass audience. Now there have been several iterations of windows and according to mores law 10 years forward see more innovation than the preced…

About your nokia example, maybe I'm mistaken but wouldn't it be like you couldn't send a proper SMS without upgrading your phone?

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#66

Post by MaxBarraclough »

jasonisalive wrote: post #42
nirvdrum wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let's just dispense with the silly idea of having open standards. The idea was to allow graceful degradation. But if you're just going to block out people, just dump the baggage of HTML and CSS and truly move everything forward. I'm not really sure how the rest of your points follow, however. Modern browser features have led to higher battery consumption on the whole. The number of sites that can peg a CPU core…

Modern browser features have led to higher battery consumption on the whole. The number of sites that can peg a CPU core is staggering If people are having consistently poor mobile experiences because of poor battery optimisation across websites, that should create market demand for smarter devices/mobile browsers, better development tools and modern standards etc., right? I'm not sure how constantly trying to get pe…

> that should create market demand for smarter devices/mobile browsers, better development tools and modern standards etc., right?

Web standards are not really about efficiency of rendering, and never will be. Hence 'cloud rendering' in Opera Mini. The minimum system requirements to browse the web are only going to increase.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-con...

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#67

Post by w1ntermute »

afafsd wrote: post #9

I'm using Firefox 3.5, and a helluva lot of stuff doesn't work properly any more. For instance, I notice that reddit broke a few weeks ago and I can no longer vote or comment. Why? I have no idea. "Why don't you just get a new browser?" you might ask. Because new versions of browsers don't work on OS 10.4. "So why don't you upgrade your OS?" Because as far as I can tell, no upgraded OS that will work on this machine…

This is one of the many reasons why I try to avoid using proprietary software. Such a situation would have never arisen if you were running a GNU/Linux-based system.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#69

Post by butterfly14 »

This is great news! Now all I have to do is not update my browser any more and I won't have to deal with the mess of google, facebook etc. changing their UI every so often and making me search for the new locations of the links to the features I use frequently.

More seriously, I have set my "google" bookmark to google.com/webhp?complete=0&hl=en because I LIKE the old style better and don't want instant/autocomplete.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#70

Post by josteink »

'Discourages' eh? I think a quote from Iain M. Bank's culture-series is in place here:

"You might call them soft, and they might agree with you, but they're soft like the ocean is soft, and any sailor will tell you how harmless the Ocean is."

Google is just being 'soft' on non-Chrome browsers here.

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