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Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

latimes.com

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#61
post #3

"Nobody 10,000 years ago had blue eyes," Hawks said. "Why is it that blue-eyed people had a 5% advantage in reproducing compared to non-blue-eyed people? I have no idea." Now that's interesting. Any theories?

Beats me. I married someone with brown eyes (and black hair). On the other hand, she married a man with blue eyes (and blond hair), and my genes have been replicated into four children. My dad's genes for red hair have passed on to be expressed in two of my children.

Blue eyes and blonde/red hair are recessive traits, while brown eyes and hair are dominant. You having blue eyes means both of the gene pairs that control eye color have the recessive blue, while your wifes brown eyes can be caused by having a set of blue and a set of brown genes, and as brown is the dominant one, it is what was actually expressed in here eye color. The fact that your children have blue eyes means she does have genes for blue eyes, and they are inherited into your children as well as your blue genes, hence their blue eyes. The same goes for blonde/red vs brown hair.

Either that, or consult with your milkman/gardener.

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dawkins, with his gene-centered view of Darwinian evolution, refutes this, explaining that evolution by natural selection is gradual. People say he refutes this. According to him, he never said anything to refute this. In either case, you have to be specific about what "gradual" means. Dawkin's evolution is more gradual than intelligent design, but not so gradual that it is inconsistent with Stephen Gould's claim.

Dawkins is skeptical of non-adaptive processes in evolution and of natural selection above that of the gene (i.e. at the organism or even species level). I'm not implying that they have a hostile personal relationship, but their academic disagreements were significant. Examples include the gradual view of evolution, and also Gould's claim of NOMA, which Dawkins (detests).

This was settled a long time ago -- outside the popular writing.

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Debate/CEP_Gould.html

(I have studied some related subjects but not evolutionary biology, so I don't really know the research papers. But I do know that political/religious idealists are often dishonest to influence public opinion.)

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#63
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is possible, but the gene for blue eyes may also be linked with some other characteristic (biologically more relevant than attraction - like resistance to cancer) that might provide selective advantage. Linkage (close enough genes travel together) among genes plays a huge role in selection but often, and understandably, we regard the the feature that is easily visible to us as essential.

While it is irrelevant to your point, I'd like to make a note about your example. Resistance to cancer would likely have little evolutionary value. Most mating and child rearing is done before the average age of cancer, particularly in past societies. I would similarly wager that cancer would not a be a strong enough force (it would usually hit people randomly rather than the entire group simultaneously) to ruin the…

"If anything, cancer resistance (which would probably mean less cell mutation ability) would be disadvantageous from an evolution standpoint because you would have less variation and consequently may have trouble adapting."

Evolution doesn't work that way. It doesn't favor mutation because mutation is "good" for evolution. You have to look at it from individual genes, and there the story is just the opposite.

Evolution happens in spite of, not because of genetic predisposition to mutation, because it's vastly more likely for a mutation to be pointless or harmful than beneficial. If you have a gene that makes mutation in the genepool overall less likely, that gene will be more successful at spreading itself, because the mutants have, on the whole, far less chance of success than the originals (which have already proven their worth in a long chain of ancestor individuals carrying them). Of course every so often a mutant gets lucky and is more successful (or at least not less successful) than the original -- this is what selection is all about -- but statistics are against them.

To elaborate your scenario: suppose the environment changed very rapidly, and adaptation in some direction were necessary to survive it. If by some stroke of luck a gene that increased the mutation rate happened to be there at that moment, defying the odds, it would find a favorable environment, but only for as long as the rapid change is required. Generalizing this: a successful genepool is one where the mutation rate is "just right" for adapting to the environment. Too much mutation and the genepool isn't stable and will eliminate itself, too little mutation and the genepool will be eliminated by the environment. In this balance, the odds are stacked in favor of avoiding mutation.

And all this is orthogonal to the discussion of how cancer (the uncontrolled reproduction of cells) is related to the capacity for mutations (infidelity in the copying process). Cancer resistance and mutation resistance are related, but by no means the same thing. To borrow a computer image: your computer has copy processes with very high fidelity (only the occasional alpha particle to spoil the fun) but this doesn't protect it against worms, which copy themselves unwantedly but with the same high fidelity. This analogy is badly flawed in obvious ways (regular programs are not designed to copy themselves, cells are), but I hope it gets the point across.

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#64
post #3

"Nobody 10,000 years ago had blue eyes," Hawks said. "Why is it that blue-eyed people had a 5% advantage in reproducing compared to non-blue-eyed people? I have no idea." Now that's interesting. Any theories?

It seems to me that amongst (white) people who play badminton, a larger proportion have blue eyes than amongst the general population.

A friend told me that in baseball, batters have a higher tendency towards blue eyes, and pitchers to brown, but I couldn't find any references.

Does anyone know if this has any scientific basis?

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#65
post #3

"Nobody 10,000 years ago had blue eyes," Hawks said. "Why is it that blue-eyed people had a 5% advantage in reproducing compared to non-blue-eyed people? I have no idea." Now that's interesting. Any theories?

Is there any credit to the rumour that blue-eyed individuals have better sight, indicating why there are so many blue-eyed fighter pilots etc?

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#66
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your eyes don't change from blue to brown as they develop, or do they?

yep: http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/eyecolor.htm )

Wow; didn't know this. Very cool. Thanks.

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#67
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think being attracted to different ethnic groups might have an advantage, too - keeping diversity in the gene pool up is probably beneficial.

There is also a problem with it, see the wikipedia entry on "outbreeding depression".

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depression

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#68
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beats me. I married someone with brown eyes (and black hair). On the other hand, she married a man with blue eyes (and blond hair), and my genes have been replicated into four children. My dad's genes for red hair have passed on to be expressed in two of my children.

Blue eyes and blonde/red hair are recessive traits, while brown eyes and hair are dominant. You having blue eyes means both of the gene pairs that control eye color have the recessive blue, while your wifes brown eyes can be caused by having a set of blue and a set of brown genes, and as brown is the dominant one, it is what was actually expressed in here eye color. The fact that your children have blue eyes means sh…

You having blue eyes means both of the gene pairs that control eye color have the recessive blue, while your wifes brown eyes can be caused by having a set of blue and a set of brown genes, and as brown is the dominant one, it is what was actually expressed in here eye color.

My wife is from a part of China that is not very likely to have any genes for blue eyes (or red hair) in the indigenous population. The overwhelming probability is that she is homozygotic for both black hair and brown eyes.

The fact that your children have blue eyes means she does have genes for blue eyes

There is a reading problem here, because I never said anywhere in my post that any of my children have blue eyes. (In fact, these days I am startled whenever I see a child with blue eyes, even though I grew up with siblings with blue eyes, because all my children and my wife look at me with brown eyes. I see blue eyes and ask myself, "Do they make eyes in that color too?")

You also are well advised to do more reading about the genetics of human eye color and hair color

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_hair_color

and human genetics in general. Genes can recombine from one generation to the next. My red-haired dad, by the usual assumption that you made in your reply, was homozygotic for red hair, making me presumptively heterozygotic for red hair, while my wife presumptively is not a carrier of that trait at all, on population genetics probabilities. But two of my children have hair that is "brown" at a glance but also includes red pigment (as can be seen when their hair is backlit by sunlight or when strands of their hair are observed under a microscope). Sometimes children can inherit a double copy on one gene from just one parent, as anyone who has carefully studied human genetics knows.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/omim/

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't only Caucasians have blue eyes? And aren't they (full disclosure "we" in my case) also the only ones with the mutated version of the gene which controls how much melanin is deposited in skill, hair and... I think also irises? Asians and Africans both have the normal version of the same gene. And melanin has many roles, sun protection being just one, the other is as a structural protein. Just compare how black s…

"Don't only Caucasians have blue eyes?" No. More than you ever wanted to know about eyes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color Also, this is neat: A 2002 study found the prevalence of blue eye color among Caucasians in the United States to be 33.8 percent for those born from 1936 through 1951 compared with 57.4 percent for those born from 1899 through 1905.[10] Blue eyes have become increasingly rare among American…

From your wikipedia link: Blue eyes contain low amounts of melanin...

Blue eyes are most common in Northern Europe and Central Europe and to a lesser degree in Southern Europe,North America and southern Central Asia; Afghanistan is a notable example.[30] They're also found in parts of North Africa,[31] West Asia, and South Asia[32], in particular the northern areas of India and Pakistan. It can rarely occur as far south as Sri Lanka. However blue eyes are not found within the population of East Asia, due to the major pre-dominance of the brown eye gene in the area.

Central Asians, people from the Caucasus, Afghans, Pakistanis, and even Indians darker then many an African are considered Caucasian. They are Caucasians. And North Africa is full of Caucasians, hell even German tribes, Goths if I recall correctly, settled there during Roman times.

So only Caucasians have Blue eyes. Again because of a gene mutation which control how much melanin is deposited in hair, skin, and irises.

Someone with a lot of melanin could have blue eyes, but they wouldn't appear blue do the the melanin. That's why blue eyes contain low amounts of melanin.

And low amounts of melanin are related to vitamin D, which is related to living in northern climates.

Re: Humans evolving 100 times faster than historical levels.

#70
post #58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit vague. Has anyone run the stats on the incidence of cross-tribal sex? And where would they get the data?

They have studied violence and tribal group's have an insane level of homicide relative to the US average. When you look at children from spouse infidelity in modern times the numbers are something like 10 to 30%. So, I don't think the average family tree is as correct as people think. Add in rape / conquest and I expect most tribes where constantly exchanging DNA. The only real limitations where probably geographic.

Although in past times (pre 60s), excepting cases of wartime, it would probably have been harder to cheat and get away with without serious consequence. As parental testing gets easier/more affordable (perhaps even mandatory at birth or at least for child maintenance collection) this may change.

As it stands, culture encourages promiscuity under the guide of empowerment (whether this is positive or negative is a longer argument) and legislation certainly doesn't discourage cheating (e.g. fault-free divorce, child maintenance to support the female partner even in cases where the male partner ends up not being the actual father, alimony in the U.S.).

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