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Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#31

Post by millstone »

Riiiight. "Old browsers." Which "old version" of Chrome do you think is affected?

Google has already proven their willingness to degrade their search experience for non-Chrome browsers, by splashing a Chrome banner ad on the Google search home page[1].

This is about capturing more marketshare for Chrome, pure and simple. Eventually "old browsers" will be replaced by "browsers we don't care to support" will be replaced by "browsers that aren't Chrome." In the end, there's a possibility that Google's client software will be required to access Google's services.

Do you think that's farfetched? That Google is committed to browser diversity on the web? Then look at their vision for the desktop: Chromebooks, which do not support installing any web browser that's not Chrome.

[1]: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/04/firefox-install-google-chro... and http://timothycope.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/0529201400...

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#32

Post by drivingmenuts »

userbinator wrote: post #4

Google has started showing old versions of its search page to people using out-of-date versions of some web browsers. On the other hand, many of the people using older versions of browsers would probably be the same ones who don't like the changes Google's made to its pages. As someone who regularly uses various browsers (including text-based), I have a very strong opinion on this: I've noticed the "you must use brow…

> Users should be free to use whatever browser they want, on whatever hardware they want,

They are.

> with the understanding that some sites may use features their browsers don't support.

Yep.

> Most sites on the Internet are still primarily sources of information, and it's rather disconcerting to see "appification" turning easily accessible pages containing text and images into complex behemoths that only work in the latest browsers from the big vendors

That's covered by the second half of the first quoted sentence.

> I know there is a certain allure to using the "latest technologies" for many developers, but if it needlessly excludes some others,

Who are still free to use whatever they want.

> there's a marginalising, discriminatory element to it that I just can't agree with.

So, only users get to use new tech and developers are stuck with using whatever works on the oldest stuff?

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#33

Post by drivingmenuts »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #30
userbinator wrote: post #4

Google has started showing old versions of its search page to people using out-of-date versions of some web browsers. On the other hand, many of the people using older versions of browsers would probably be the same ones who don't like the changes Google's made to its pages. As someone who regularly uses various browsers (including text-based), I have a very strong opinion on this: I've noticed the "you must use brow…

"I've noticed the "you must use browser X, Y, or Z" trend become more prevalent over the years..." I believe what you are actually seeing is the opposite of "Don't use IE". Instead they are saying "Use anything but IE" (best viewed in Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera). And that's good advice.

I've adopted the "I don't care if you use IE" mentality.

I'm on OS X - if a browser doesn't run there, to hell with them. I'm not wasting the money to buy an OS I can't stand just to test a browser. I'm also not wasting time having to reinstall a VM every 30 days for the same reason.

When MS makes it painless to run IE on a Mac, then I'll actively test against it. I might not try to actively break it, but I'm not going to worry much.

And, thanks to Node-Webkit, anything that's critical can be wrapped up in an app.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#34

Post by drivingmenuts »

radmuzom wrote: post #28
vonklaus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think HN self selects for a bunch of corner cases that are atypical to the problem google is trying to correct for. People who have refused to update due to dislike of a certain OS, browser configuration, have extensions that limit functionality or otherwise knowingly don't update their browser for a specific reason based on technical understanding or aesthetic choice are the corner cases. Obviously, there are just…

It's not that people refuse to update. At work, we have not yet upgraded from XP so nothing above IE8 works here - you are not allowed to install any software on your own so no Firefox. If news sites, where the primary content should be text and maybe a couple of images, don't work because they require all kinds of fancy "modern web" features - then it is not a problem with users but a problem with the developers of…

No, that's a problem with your IT department being stuck about a decade behind.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#35

Post by vonklaus »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #30
userbinator wrote: post #4

Google has started showing old versions of its search page to people using out-of-date versions of some web browsers. On the other hand, many of the people using older versions of browsers would probably be the same ones who don't like the changes Google's made to its pages. As someone who regularly uses various browsers (including text-based), I have a very strong opinion on this: I've noticed the "you must use brow…

"I've noticed the "you must use browser X, Y, or Z" trend become more prevalent over the years..." I believe what you are actually seeing is the opposite of "Don't use IE". Instead they are saying "Use anything but IE" (best viewed in Chrome, Firefox, Safari and Opera). And that's good advice.

tbh the guys who are building the new IE did a reddit AMA a week or so ago. The new IE seems really great and those guys seem smart and receptive to the needs of web-devs and users. The problem, which google is trying to address, is that I doubt the majority share of computers running ie are running the newest most updated version. However, ceterus paribas, your point is well taken.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#36

Post by arjie »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #34
radmuzom wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that people refuse to update. At work, we have not yet upgraded from XP so nothing above IE8 works here - you are not allowed to install any software on your own so no Firefox. If news sites, where the primary content should be text and maybe a couple of images, don't work because they require all kinds of fancy "modern web" features - then it is not a problem with users but a problem with the developers of…

No, that's a problem with your IT department being stuck about a decade behind.

Some may see your comment as flippant, but it is very accurate. Didn't MS shut off support for that combination of OS and Browser? If so, their IT department is exposing them to security trouble. If so, their competence is in question.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#37

Post by hippich »

afafsd wrote: post #9

I'm using Firefox 3.5, and a helluva lot of stuff doesn't work properly any more. For instance, I notice that reddit broke a few weeks ago and I can no longer vote or comment. Why? I have no idea. "Why don't you just get a new browser?" you might ask. Because new versions of browsers don't work on OS 10.4. "So why don't you upgrade your OS?" Because as far as I can tell, no upgraded OS that will work on this machine…

Does your laptop have intel hardware? If so - I would recommend installing Ubuntu on it so you could keep using same hardware while it is still relevant.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#38

Post by nirvdrum »

jasonisalive wrote: post #5
userbinator wrote: post #4

Google has started showing old versions of its search page to people using out-of-date versions of some web browsers. On the other hand, many of the people using older versions of browsers would probably be the same ones who don't like the changes Google's made to its pages. As someone who regularly uses various browsers (including text-based), I have a very strong opinion on this: I've noticed the "you must use brow…

I disagree. The marginalising, discriminatory effects of web developers using the state of the art is critical to moving web technology forward as quickly as possible. By penalising users who use antiquated browsers or computing devices, it helps create pressure and demand for: a) more affordable modern computing devices b) more intelligent auto-updating browsing software c) more educated and engaged consumers Mollyc…

Then let's just dispense with the silly idea of having open standards. The idea was to allow graceful degradation. But if you're just going to block out people, just dump the baggage of HTML and CSS and truly move everything forward.

I'm not really sure how the rest of your points follow, however. Modern browser features have led to higher battery consumption on the whole. The number of sites that can peg a CPU core is staggering (and naturally terrible for batter life). The motivating factor for auto-updating browsers is to deal with security matters, not jamming features consumers aren't really asking for down the pipe. No one really needs drop shadows badly enough to risk instability every 6 weeks. And I'm not sure how constantly trying to get people to download Chrome makes them either more educated or engaged. It strikes me to be the opposite.

I'd like to mention that there's a whole class of HTTP clients that aren't end user browsers that get impacted by this sort of thing. It kinda sucks having to fire up a hefty PhantomJS or SlimerJS process because the standard HTTP clients for whatever language of choice can't do anything meaningful with certain sites any longer.

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#39

Post by kylec »

afafsd wrote: post #9

I'm using Firefox 3.5, and a helluva lot of stuff doesn't work properly any more. For instance, I notice that reddit broke a few weeks ago and I can no longer vote or comment. Why? I have no idea. "Why don't you just get a new browser?" you might ask. Because new versions of browsers don't work on OS 10.4. "So why don't you upgrade your OS?" Because as far as I can tell, no upgraded OS that will work on this machine…

You can still get 10.6:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573Z/A/mac-os-x-106-snow...

Re: Google 'discourages' users of old browsers

#40

Post by abrowne »

afafsd wrote: post #9

I'm using Firefox 3.5, and a helluva lot of stuff doesn't work properly any more. For instance, I notice that reddit broke a few weeks ago and I can no longer vote or comment. Why? I have no idea. "Why don't you just get a new browser?" you might ask. Because new versions of browsers don't work on OS 10.4. "So why don't you upgrade your OS?" Because as far as I can tell, no upgraded OS that will work on this machine…

Although it was discontinued at first (I think), you can now buy a DVD of 10.6 (Snow Leopard) on Apple's online store: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573Z/A/mac-os-x-106-snow...

You can also buy Lion and Mountain Lion, too, as a code to use on the Mac App Store. (Presumably Mavericks will join them soon.) More info: http://store.apple.com/us/help/downloadable_software#MacOSX

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