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Why doctors are sick of their profession

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Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#231

Many friends of mine are doctors and they've expressed the same feelings. There are days when they absolutely love what they do, but as an outsider, I see them experiencing more low days than high days. Just as an anecdote, part of it is the expectations of the patient population in the Bay Area - and I'm only referring to the high income neighborhoods here; the situation differs significantly in low income neighborh…

>>As one doctor put it, "Why did they come and see me at all, if they are already convinced of what they have? Just to waste their own time and money, not to mention my time?"

A lot of people are anxious that they are going to lose their jobs to automation. The profession of medicine should be no different. Whatever is happening to them is happening to nearly every single individual on earth.

>>I once described the job of a project manager to a doctor friend as a "thankless profession," and he immediately said, "that sounds like my job too!"

The job of a project manager is probably the job with the highest ROI on earth. Where else do you get paid big money, to do meta supervisory work, forward emails and approve leaves. While not moving a finger towards doing any actual work yourself.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say that policemen and soldiers are slaves, too? In a sense, their job is to maintain and enforce civil rights for the rest of us.

They are slaves if it is considered that people have a "right" to their services... in other words, policemen and soldiers are legally and morally required to do their jobs even if there isn't money to pay them, which would be the case if there was such a right. The same is true for health care. If you actually had an inalienable right to health care, then you could require a doctor to provide you service whether he…

At last... an intelligent comment. Thank you.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#233
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the United States isn't a 'country' in the way the UK, or Denmark, or Australia is. The entire population of Denmark is 5.59 million, the size of a single second or third tier city in the US. Australia is 22 million, the size of the NYC metro area. You can socialise and centralise healthcare in countries on such a small scale, but it becomes exponentially more difficult to do in a country like the…

The Feds pretty much mastered the "how do I make 50 states do stuff" problem -- they give the states money and threaten to take it away. We've had Medicare and Medicaid for almost 50 years now, and it works reasonably well, despite significant differences in administrative practices between states. So it absolutely can be done. We've figured out how to build a national road system, healthcare for old people, healthca…

Not saying it's impossible, just saying it's difficult and comparisons with other countries are not helpful in addressing those difficulties.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#234
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you seriously believe that, you are indeed being an idiot. Your logic reasoning skills may be pretty good, which is a component of reason that many people lack. What you seem to lack is a useful mapping between reality and propositions. And from false premises, unfortunately, even flawless logical derivation cannot produce any useful information about the world. When wwweston critizes your black-and-white thinking…

> even flawless logical derivation cannot produce any useful information about the world. This is the analytic-synthetic dichotomy that derives from Kant's false theory of concepts and I reject it. I won't argue the point as my comments are for the Aristotelians in the audience not the Kantians.

Would you mind explaining how that is the analytic-synthetic dichotomy? Assuming you didn't butcher that quote on purpose ...

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyone bright enough to do medicine would do far better in another profession." Just as a point of reference, I'm in the U.S. and not a doctor. But I've always seen careers in medicine as a kind of social scam. Not necessarily a bad one, but there is or was something funny going on. A person smart enough to be a doctor could be many things and earn a lot more money doing one of those things. The only thing society c…

> A person smart enough to be a doctor could be many things and earn a lot more money doing one of those things. Is that really true? Doctors are most of the best-paying jobs in the US [0] It seems to me that if you're bright, and care about making a lot of money, medicine is absolutely the way to go. Yes, there are some people who strike it rich with startups or high finance, but that's essentially buying a lotto ti…

I read this years ago. Google is a wonderful thing:

"Gilded Paychecks: Lure of Great Wealth Affects Career Choices." NY Times. November 27, 2006.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/27richer.html

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#236
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"really horrible, angry, violent, and generally racist people" Seek help.

The language is a bit exaggerated but I don't think it deserves such an offensive dismissal. There is plenty of evidence that conservatives have those traits, not to mention that it is a widely held belief, which is enough to make it an acceptable comment. See for example http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/jost.glaser.political-c...

The language isn't "a bit exaggerated." It's an offensive dismissal of anyone who criticizes socialized medicine, in particular, and all other social welfare programs in general. His "analysis" is a blanket ad hominem attack. Years ago, if you criticized social programs, you could be summarily dismissed as an apologist for the rich. That kind of slander is bad enough. But now a certain segment of people who no doubt consider themselves enlightened members of polite society have devolved to jumping right to the immediate slander of branding anyone and everyone who disagrees with them as "racist."

You know what? That's social pathology, and the individual I'm responding to is obviously in the grip of it. I stand by what I've said. He should seek help.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Yorkers aren't going to "pay for Idaho". NY may be paying more in tax for the entire state, but their budget would also be much larger. For obvious reasons NY can be more efficient, but that doesn't mean that they'll be paying a significant amount of the budget in Idaho.

Well, actually, they would, for the same reasons that the postal service will make money in populated areas and lose money in less populated areas. Say you need a trauma center within 1 hour of anywhere in the country. A trauma center in Manhattan is going to see a lot of traffic, while one in Clayton, NM, isn't. But the centers have the same basic cost in staff and gizmos.

> But the centers have the same basic cost in staff and gizmos.

Hang on: A busier unit is going to have more staff. Staff is not a trivial cost.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#238
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language is a bit exaggerated but I don't think it deserves such an offensive dismissal. There is plenty of evidence that conservatives have those traits, not to mention that it is a widely held belief, which is enough to make it an acceptable comment. See for example http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/jost.glaser.political-c...

The language isn't "a bit exaggerated." It's an offensive dismissal of anyone who criticizes socialized medicine, in particular, and all other social welfare programs in general. His "analysis" is a blanket ad hominem attack. Years ago, if you criticized social programs, you could be summarily dismissed as an apologist for the rich. That kind of slander is bad enough. But now a certain segment of people who no doubt…

[deleted]

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#239
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language is a bit exaggerated but I don't think it deserves such an offensive dismissal. There is plenty of evidence that conservatives have those traits, not to mention that it is a widely held belief, which is enough to make it an acceptable comment. See for example http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/jost.glaser.political-c...

I don't know any conservatives. (I work in tech and live in SF). They sound like truly horrible people. I'll keep a sharp eye out for them in the future. Your link is great! Two of the authors are from Berkeley, where I went to school!

Sorry I accidentally downvoted your post. I meant to upvote. The damn thing is too small!

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A person smart enough to be a doctor could be many things and earn a lot more money doing one of those things. Is that really true? Doctors are most of the best-paying jobs in the US [0] It seems to me that if you're bright, and care about making a lot of money, medicine is absolutely the way to go. Yes, there are some people who strike it rich with startups or high finance, but that's essentially buying a lotto ti…

I read this years ago. Google is a wonderful thing: "Gilded Paychecks: Lure of Great Wealth Affects Career Choices." NY Times. November 27, 2006. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/business/27richer.html

The first step of that career path is still "Become a doctor"
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