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I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

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Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#21

Post by hkmurakami »

asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

While the college consultants certainly increased the number of such students, such students have always existed, at least in the past couple of decades.

I myself can't say that 100% of my extracurricular activities were free from wanting to look good for college applications. My GPA was definitely boosted by my somewhat misplaced desire to get into the best university I could possibly get into, rather than through a pure passion for learning. I totally kissed a teacher's butt in one class because 20% of the grade in that class was "participation", and was entirely based on how much said teacher liked you (she was subsequently let go -- private school). I sold my soul in order to get an A in that class.

And I'm definitely not an isolated case.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#22

Post by DanBC »

jacquesm wrote: post #12
asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

The big question then is how do they make out in real life afterwards compared to their honest brothers & sisters who also entered those same colleges and compared to those that didn't make the cut because of them. At a guess, they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it but I have zero proof for that. It's just that they will get some of the ben…

> The big question then is how do they make out in real life afterwards

I'm amazed this question is being asked. It's obvious that bullshitters do well.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#23

Post by hkmurakami »

w1ntermute wrote: post #19
jacquesm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big question then is how do they make out in real life afterwards compared to their honest brothers & sisters who also entered those same colleges and compared to those that didn't make the cut because of them. At a guess, they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it but I have zero proof for that. It's just that they will get some of the ben…

> they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it If this is true, then less-than-deserving children will have successfully used their parents' wealth to artificially improve their station in life. Which means that our higher education system is helping to perpetuate class divides (even though it claims to be greatly interested in not doing so).

Legacy admissions (which is alive and well at my alma mater) definitely helps to perpetuate this as well.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#24

Post by joesmo »

w1ntermute wrote: post #19
jacquesm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big question then is how do they make out in real life afterwards compared to their honest brothers & sisters who also entered those same colleges and compared to those that didn't make the cut because of them. At a guess, they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it but I have zero proof for that. It's just that they will get some of the ben…

> they'll do better in life than the ones that didn't make it but not as good as the ones that were honest and made it If this is true, then less-than-deserving children will have successfully used their parents' wealth to artificially improve their station in life. Which means that our higher education system is helping to perpetuate class divides (even though it claims to be greatly interested in not doing so).

Of course it does. Look at the price of tuition. That perpetuates class divides more than any other factor.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#25

Post by mathetic »

asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this.

If universities are willing to accept students not based on merit but on a touching story, then they had it coming.

People who admit one to these universities in general are not alumni of that school, did not go through the same experience and are not experts in the subject one wants to study. It is ludicrous to expect them to differentiate good candidates from bad ones.

Also general criticism to above seems to be that it is not feasible to deal with all the applicants. That claim is bogus since Oxford and Cambridge professors are conducting multiple technical interviews with each candidate for centuries for both domestic and international students.

EDIT: Loving down voting without explanation for a reasonable opinion on the subject.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#26

Post by Ygg2 »

Mz wrote: post #10

So she now makes decent money but feels like she is selling her soul. That seems so common. And I find myself increasingly wondering if the world is really so screwed up that it is not possible to make it, financially, without feeling like a sell-out or if there is some other explanation for that phenomenon. Surely, there are people in the world who are not destitute and who don't feel like they are selling their sou…

Probably. I think Mark Rosewater the designer of Magic the Gathering feels that way. For you not to feel cheap or cheated you need to love your job, be payed for it and be good at it. Finding all three is next to impossible

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#27

Post by sehr »

mathetic wrote: post #25
asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this. If universities are willing to accept students not based on merit but on a touching story, then they had it coming. People who admit one to these universities in general are not alumni of that school, did not go through the same experience and are not experts in the subject one wants to study. It is ludicrous to expect them to differentiate good candidates from bad ones. Als…

Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this.

I'm sure those other applicants who were turned down in favor of these are fine with it as well

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#28

Post by learc83 »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #15

I am not sure why this is directed towards China. There are certainly more Americans paying Americans to write their essays every semester. EDIT: Oh Fucking ?? , guys what is up with the downvotes? This is just idiotic. If you disagree, voice it. It's ok, perhaps I am mistaken, enlighten me. But downvoting without giving a comment is like telling me I am wrong without giving me a direction. "You wouldn't laugh at som…

Because it's written by a woman who writes essays for Chinese students.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#29

Post by cinquemb »

I think dynamics like these are pretty interesting, reminds me of a convo with phd student I work with about taking classes he could care less about and I said pretty soon people will probably be using google glass or contacts that they can leverage during exams and a sign of it working will be when universities start trying to crack down on such behavior despite such things making students more efficient in a system that has seemed to focus on everything but what it sells itself as (at least idealized at its "best")… all in all, just another symptom of another system moving to obsolescence.

"I don’t know what I was expecting in return from the student. Would my client feel the pain of the story and then question the ethics of using another person’s life as an admissions essay? Would she call me and thank me for cutting out a personal part of my heart for her? Later, I received a one-word email from her: “Thanks.” The message stung. I thought about the itchy Goodwill sweater and how much itchier it had felt as I cried after my classmate mocked me. I had given up a private piece of myself for the bargain price of $400. I logged off and shut down my laptop."

Also interesting to see how individuals seem to internalize the dynamics of the larger systems they operate within. What's more void: someone engaging in such a behavior as the author in this system or similar behavior in other systems, or any system that incentivizes such behavior through various mechanisms that people who (or would like to) consider themselves not destitute/sellout/whatever-flavor-of-the-day, live their lives by and submit themselves to? I posit neither or both…

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