A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles • Hacker News Board

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#51

Post by ghaff » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC

willhinsa wrote: post #46

gameshot911 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, I didn't think about the value of being able to do other activities. Hard to quantify with a monetary value though!

Actually it's not difficult. Calculate your hourly wage (salary + benefits)/hours_worked, and value all of your time as such. It will help you a lot to avoid wasting time doing stuff you don't like that you can pay people to do for you at a lower cost to you.

That makes the assumption that you can earn that wage in the incremental time you gain by having someone do a task for you. Maybe if you're an independent consultant or otherwise have a business where you bill by the hour and are turning down work you simply don't have time to do but would otherwise be happy to take it. But that doesn't describe most people.

I do pay to have a number of things done for me on a regular basis that I either don't like to do or don't consistently have the time to do (like getting my lawn cut), but it's more about how much I'm willing to pay for the service as opposed to how the $/hour compares to what I earn.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#52

Post by ghaff » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:06 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #44

notastartup wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what car are you driving and how much mileage was on it when you bought it? I honestly think to get from point A to B, a used car will do the job just fine, sounds pretty good from what you've described.

2002 Honda Civic Sedan, 0 miles when I bought it, still had the factory shipping plastic on it. It's not a sweet ride, it's more like an automotive appliance. It's reasonably comfortable, I change the oil regularly and take it for all the scheduled maintenance and services. But I don't take particularly good care of it. Everything is cheap with it, tires, gas, etc. It's only broken down on me once, and my insurance c…

Some folks seem to almost have a religion about buying used cars. The one relatively low mileage used car I bought as an adult ended up with a lot of maintenance bills for whatever reason. I also had really bad luck with a new Dodge but my other new car purchases have all provided a pretty good lifetime of service. One of my current cars is a 1997 Honda Del Sol and it's still going strong at 160,000 miles.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#53

Post by nawitus » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:12 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #47

nawitus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, car costs per mile are extremely cheap in the United State, if $.30-.40/mile is typical. The government estimate in Finland is about $.90/mile, and almost nobody has it that cheap. If I recall correctly, I calculated my own costs at around $1/mile, and I drive a 14-year-old car which requires very little maintenance.

As of 2014, the allowable tax deduction for business reimbursements for personal vehicle usage is $.56 per mile, which is supposed to cover gas and wear and tear on your personal vehicle. Finland: according to Numbeo [1] fuel runs around 1.66 Euro per liter. In the U.S. it's $.96 per liter (or .73 Euro). I'm guessing there's probably some kind of auto tax in Finland which appears to be fairly expensive. I've heard it…

There's "usage tax" which is something like $200 - $400 per year. If the car is a diesel, it's significantly higher (but diesel is taxed at a lower rate). Diesel cars are cheaper only if you drive a certain amount of kilometers per year.

There's also the 'car tax' you pay when you buy a new car, which is rather high. A $31k car in the United States is about $48k in Finland.

Winter does increase car ownership. Cars rust more, and you also need two sets of tires (and winter tires tend to wear out faster than summer tires).

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#54

Post by MisterBastahrd » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:17 PM UTC

harpastum wrote: post #41

diego wrote: post #34

The article disregards the fact that a car has features that Uber doesn't. One is mobile storage: you can store things in your car that you often need wherever you go. This is particularly important for parents of young children. Another one is instant availability for open-ended road trips. It's not feasible to go visit a friend two hours away with the possibility of staying overnight with an Uber. If you're going t…

This is a good point, but there are also several Uber benefits over car ownership. For example, being able to travel when tired/inebriated. Also, not being late if you have an engine issue or get a flat tire. This article tries to enumerate the financial differences, the subjective ones are also very important.

The fun thing about that is that you can use Uber in those circumstances, and still have the freedom to jump in your car and drive off whenever you want to instead of living by someone else's schedule. His argument is just plain bad.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#55

Post by panarky » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:21 PM UTC

diego wrote: post #34

The article disregards the fact that a car has features that Uber doesn't. One is mobile storage: you can store things in your car that you often need wherever you go. This is particularly important for parents of young children. Another one is instant availability for open-ended road trips. It's not feasible to go visit a friend two hours away with the possibility of staying overnight with an Uber. If you're going t…

Another benefit to driving your own car is that you can take your client to lunch without asking her to drive.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#56

Post by joeguilmette » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:23 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #23

bbrian wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see single-speed bikers as the luddites of cycling. I live in a relatively flat city, Dublin, but I am still constantly shifting gears. I think a lot of people don't understand how good gears really are. In a similar way, there are a lot of people cycling mountain bikes around the city, and I didn't appreciate how much better actual road bikes are while I still had my hybrid. And for non-cyclists: 15 mph (25 kmph)…

neo-luddites perhaps, when I was an active cyclist a bit more than a decade ago the fixie was an unknown thing. There were single speed bikes then - the well known beach cruiser - it was a single speed, yes, but it also could idle along without peddling and had a rear drum brake - I can see a place for that kind of thing - no one has been able to explain to me how a direct drive fixed gear bicycle is better than even…

It's like a manual vs an automatic vehicle. You aren't forced to constantly pedal, so much as your legs must move at the same speed as the pedals. At low speeds you are much more connected to the bicycle. Taking a low speed, sharp turn is more akin to walking and feels much more natural.

Also, it enforces good form, like pedaling thru turns.

Small speed adjustments are natural and easy. Also, when accelerating, the pedals are moving regardless of input, so you can simply tap them down on the downstroke, hovering your foot above the pedal on the up stroke.

There is a reason a fixed gear is a popular configuration and it has little to do with being cool or hip.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#57

Post by gonzo » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:46 PM UTC

policenracism wrote: post #18

I found his point of being a young black male and not having to be pulled over again to be striking. I am sure that black people are pulled over more times by the police then whites are. What could be the reasoning and the solution(s). Is it because... - The cops are really racist? - The cops are looking for a suspect that matches those unfairly targeted? In which and unfortunately points to a statistic that black ma…

LAPD has a long history of racism. They named their HQ after one of the most notorious racists to ever be a cop, never,ind the longest-running chief of police in LAPD history.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#58

Post by afafsd » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 8:52 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #21

Geez, $12,744 per year ? I've had my current car since 2002, which I bought new for about $14,000 (including interest, which was low because I paid the car off as quickly as I possibly could, short circuiting most of the interest payments). I go through the exercise of the total lifetime cost of my car, gas, insurance, maintenace, all told every year or two. And it's somewhere around $.30-.40 per mile or about $1 che…

I looked into the AAA's "depreciation" and "interest" numbers, and it turns out the calculations are based on buying a car brand new with borrowed money, paying it off over the course of five years (at what must be a rather large interest rate given the average $900+ cost), and then selling it off the moment you're done paying it off.

So let's just say that we're comparing to a really dumb and expensive mode of car ownership.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#59

Post by cpprototypes » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 9:17 PM UTC

For Los Angeles, UberX, Lyft, and others have the potential to solve the "last mile" issue of public transit. Especially with newer carpool features like UberPool and Lyft Line.

LA is currently investing a lot into building more light rail infrastructure. However, regardless of how much LA invests in rail, for most commuters the rail will only get them most of the way to their workplace. Before UberX and Lyft, the only options for the last leg of the trip were bicycle (which has a lot of limits), bus (too unreliable), and taxi (too expensive).

UberX and Lyft provide an option that didn't exist before. And it's cheap and reliable enough to a be a very good option. As LA continues to build more rail, I think it has the potential to greatly change commuting in the future. Maybe it will become common for young single people to not own a car and rely on Uber/Lyft combined with rail. And then when they get married and have kids, then buying one car makes sense. The result would also greatly reduce traffic and air pollution.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#60

Post by jusben1369 » Sun, Aug 31, 2014, 9:19 PM UTC

This is great work! Most comments here are always going to go negative on the data he collects. "This is not true! I own a 1981 VW diesel with 220,000 miles on it and the only thing I've had to fix...."

Avoiding those ratholes for a moment I want to look at the other side. The Uber economics. Uber's pricing is based on the assumption that you're not using Uber as your full time car replacement. Put another way, I'm waiting for the Uber monthly subscription that gives me up to X miles per month for Y cost. If I commit to that many miles I'm pretty sure that can drive down the cost per mile in a meaningful way....say 20 - 30% vs the current "pay as you go on demand model"

Lastly I think the first logical place to look is the 2 car family. You can shelve one and still have your own car for long family vacation trips or other immediate requirements while using Uber for that person that's got a pretty predictable 5 day a week commute etc.