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This is why you never end up hiring good developers

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Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#31

Post by coldtea »

grimman wrote: post #27
thegenius wrote: post #5

In the best interview I had, the interviewer started by saying, "Just talk" with a friendly smile. I was taken aback, and it eased the tension I was feeling. I started talking about my experience, and he took an active interest and branched off his questions based on the things I had done. He asked intelligent questions that made his compentency clear. I was able to volly back and forth with him until my competency b…

That might work for you, which is great when it happens, but I personally can't do that... I can't just sit and talk.

Why, what's the problem?

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#32

Post by meddlepal »

grimman wrote: post #27
thegenius wrote: post #5

In the best interview I had, the interviewer started by saying, "Just talk" with a friendly smile. I was taken aback, and it eased the tension I was feeling. I started talking about my experience, and he took an active interest and branched off his questions based on the things I had done. He asked intelligent questions that made his compentency clear. I was able to volly back and forth with him until my competency b…

That might work for you, which is great when it happens, but I personally can't do that... I can't just sit and talk.

Why not?

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#33

Post by coldtea »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #3

Fizzbizz? Naah. What you want to do is something more like Minesweep. You go, "Mr. or Mrs. Candidate-Person, we're designing a Minesweep game. You've probably played it before. Here are the rules if you need clarifications. I'm handling the front-end, you write something for the backend." It doesn't matter the programming language they go for or the precise implementation they choose to any one of a number of issues.…

>Fizzbizz? Naah. What you want to do is something more like Minesweep.

The whole idea is that fizzbuzz weeds out tons of people who don't know how to do it, plus it's simple to do in a very short meeting for someone who knows programming it's like 30 seconds tops.

So Minesweeper doesn't make sense in this context. Even trying to convey the exact set of rules it will have to follow for the gameplay takes time (and, no, not everybody has "played it before").

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#34

Post by sethammons »

deedubaya wrote: post #25

Interview questions often have less to do with the candidate than they have to do with the interviewer. Meaning: It's either a superiority thing, a desire to impress, or just plainly covering up for lack of real interview skills. Gauge a candidate's skill set by asking open ended general overview questions like "Tell me about SCM branching and what advantages they provide" or "Tell me about a time you might have enco…

I've interviewed candidates who can talk an amazing game but can't seem to code. Starting a couple of years ago at our organization, it has been required that candidates produce _something_ that can run (or come real close to it).

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#36

Post by sAuronas »

Funny because companies are still doing these things: just been asked to fizz/buzz...code with someone watching my screen, etc (as someone who was told he was inferior to whites by a HS teacher before a test, the anxiety is terrifying). Another (YC) company did the "culture" thing to me - I believe - because they just stopped calling me after telling me I would be moving on the "the lunch with the team" interview. Didn't return my emails either... This might be 2014 but it still strikes me as lacking taste to use the words "culture" and "fit" to a minority [sic] candidate.

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#37

Post by deedubaya »

sethammons wrote: post #34
deedubaya wrote: post #25

Interview questions often have less to do with the candidate than they have to do with the interviewer. Meaning: It's either a superiority thing, a desire to impress, or just plainly covering up for lack of real interview skills. Gauge a candidate's skill set by asking open ended general overview questions like "Tell me about SCM branching and what advantages they provide" or "Tell me about a time you might have enco…

I've interviewed candidates who can talk an amazing game but can't seem to code. Starting a couple of years ago at our organization, it has been required that candidates produce _something_ that can run (or come real close to it).

Totally agree that is a possibility. I assume you make them write something at the interview? Wouldn't it be more efficient to review code they've already written? I always review code prior to an interview.

Writing code is a process, few people can produce production quality code on the first go especially with someone looking over your shoulder.

If they haven't written code that they can share or that is Open Source, doesn't that really settle it?

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#38

Post by parennoob »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #3

Fizzbizz? Naah. What you want to do is something more like Minesweep. You go, "Mr. or Mrs. Candidate-Person, we're designing a Minesweep game. You've probably played it before. Here are the rules if you need clarifications. I'm handling the front-end, you write something for the backend." It doesn't matter the programming language they go for or the precise implementation they choose to any one of a number of issues.…

"There are basically two main types of candidates: the candidate who approaches the problem and says "I need to loop over every cell in sequence and assign a mine or not based on a random probability! Wait, what do you mean, I need to get a specific number of mines on the board? I'm not sure I can make that happen" ... and the candidate who's worth hiring."

Since this interviewer seems to have made up their mind already with pre-conceptions of which candidate is worth hiring, what is the "correct" answer to this question? "Pick random co-ordinates, check, and retry?". I'd like to know, so I can give that as my first answer if I come up before such a person in the interview.

This right here is why everyone tries to game the system and come out with the "worth hiring" answer as if they had thought it out themselves. We are not even given an opportunity to ask questions, maybe come up with an answer, say "That's not optimal", and work towards a good answer -- which is the flow you would use for working at your day-to-day job. And, for the record, I started playing Minesweeper last year, and hadn't even touched it back in the day.

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#39

Post by philsnow »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #3

Fizzbizz? Naah. What you want to do is something more like Minesweep. You go, "Mr. or Mrs. Candidate-Person, we're designing a Minesweep game. You've probably played it before. Here are the rules if you need clarifications. I'm handling the front-end, you write something for the backend." It doesn't matter the programming language they go for or the precise implementation they choose to any one of a number of issues.…

If you're above whatever threshold, maybe 50%, just reverse it and find N coords for empty squares rather than N coords for mine squares.

Re: This is why you never end up hiring good developers

#40

Post by nitrogen »

coldtea wrote: post #31
grimman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might work for you, which is great when it happens, but I personally can't do that... I can't just sit and talk.

Why, what's the problem?

I'm not the OP, but I'd guess that they might need some starting point, a seed crystal, before they can crystallize them into a conversation.

To the OP, I would suggest using the context of the interview to start (e.g. I am here because....).

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