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Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

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41–50 of 58 posts

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#41

The key question is what competitors have as technology. I don't know about the Japanese manufacturers, but in Germany Audi and VW have been heavily working on self-driving and assistive technology for the last decade and only incorporated communication technology at a later point (I was working at Vodafone R&D then and our team participated in joint tests starting six years ago). It is safe to assume that Google's a…

Google acquiring a car company would be an interesting move

The Swedish SAAB was for sale[1] not long ago if I recall correctly.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Automobile#Spyker.2FSwedis...

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a couple of other things away from that: "We know how to make these maps, we just haven't made them yet" "We can still see ways to improve this process"

I think the goal would be not to need those special maps at all. (In the long run). In any case, no-one is disputing that driverless cars are coming. Just reminding the over-zealous that there are real obstacles to overcome.

Huh? In the long run, having the maps is trivially easy. Roads aren't naturally occurring. If they can be helpful (which seems certain, since human navigators also rely heavily on having the area they're driving through memorized), why wouldn't we use them?

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but self driving cars have to be much better drivers than the average human for multiple reasons. If a human has bad driving habits you can fine him or revoke his driving license without impacting the rest of the drivers. A bug is a self driving software would require to stop all the self driving cars at the same time. Obviously, that would be a problem. Bad drivers only drive one car at a time and thus they ha…

We aren't talking about bugs, though, we're talking about cars not being able to navigate as well. That doesn't mean they're useless, it probably just means that they would have to drive very slowly at those conditions.

I think the scary parts come when we have to define the "max risk" threshold of the self-driving car.

No matter how good a self-driving car is at estimating risk, it is only able to do that: estimate risk. It cannot know, beforehand, if an accident will happen. So the question becomes: if the car estimates a 0.001% risk of accidents happening at 40 mph on a certain stretch of road, and a 0.01% risk of an accident happening at 60 mph, how fast do we drive?

Or do we just make the person who sets the risk tolerance of the self-driving car liable for any accidents that might happen, and let them set whichever risk tolerance they prefer?

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#44
post #12

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.” I guess this means we're moving into the 'ridicule' phase.

Where in the article is it being ridiculed? I read it as a dose of reality, which useful to provide some perspective on the challenges that remain (that many people are probably not even aware of). The original article might be of interest. http://www.technologyreview.com/news/530276/hidden-obstacles...

Focusing on the 99% of roads Google cars don't serve is unnecessarily ridiculing the technology, in my view.

Alternatively, had the article said that 99% of US work commutes can't yet be served by Google cars, then it's something to mention. But the 1% of roads that Google cars cover could very well be enough for the majority of US commutes (assuming it were to cover most metropolitan areas).

It's as if someone saying cellphones aren't yet ready for primetime since they don't work over most of the world's surface area. It may be true but irrelevant for the average consumer.

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#45

The key question is what competitors have as technology. I don't know about the Japanese manufacturers, but in Germany Audi and VW have been heavily working on self-driving and assistive technology for the last decade and only incorporated communication technology at a later point (I was working at Vodafone R&D then and our team participated in joint tests starting six years ago). It is safe to assume that Google's a…

I love the "road train" ideas some manufacturers are doing.

Here's one video but there are enty of others. https://youtube.com/watch?v=tQnVGOoVvVk

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#46

The real question is whether Google's self-driving car is better (it doesn't have to be perfect) than humans in heavy rain (humans also have difficulties in heavy rain).

Sensors and cameras can't really see something, but the eye and the brain of a human can guess, all senses are at 100% (humans are tired after driving in such conditions). Making an IA which can have the same performance/evaluation must be really tricky

It's probably fair to say that the lidar systems they use can see things. It generates a real time 3d map of the world, which is a lot easier to sort into obstruction/road than 2d sensor data.

The problem is that it doesn't work very well in the rain.

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#47
Does anyone remember that awful Schwarzenegger movie, the Sixth Day? It seems like the cars could work like the ones from the movie at the current stage. Basically they take over for the long, boring part of the ride and then hand control over for the trickier local bits. That way, when I make the long trip to my parents' house or my in laws, for example, I can hand over control for the parts where I might get tired, distracted by my son, etc. That capability would be a huge win for me.

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the goal would be not to need those special maps at all. (In the long run). In any case, no-one is disputing that driverless cars are coming. Just reminding the over-zealous that there are real obstacles to overcome.

Huh? In the long run, having the maps is trivially easy. Roads aren't naturally occurring. If they can be helpful (which seems certain, since human navigators also rely heavily on having the area they're driving through memorized), why wouldn't we use them?

The specialised maps are far too noisy for human navigators to use.

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#49
post #47

Does anyone remember that awful Schwarzenegger movie, the Sixth Day? It seems like the cars could work like the ones from the movie at the current stage. Basically they take over for the long, boring part of the ride and then hand control over for the trickier local bits. That way, when I make the long trip to my parents' house or my in laws, for example, I can hand over control for the parts where I might get tired,…

That's a great interim step but ultimately people still have to learn to drive. There may even be an increase in risk as you become less skilled at the things you don't do very often (when the car hands you control, the cognitive load could be overwhelming).

It'll be great when we can do away with the need for learning how to drive at all.

Re: Google's Self-Driving Car Can't Navigate Heavy Rain or Most Roads

#50
The common sentiment has been that self-driving cars are just around the corner. The reality is quite different.

The remaining problems to solve such as navigating the elements or obeying construction signs or interacting properly with pedestrians or police are orders of magnitude more difficult than the problems that have been solved thus far. These problems are fundamentally different in that they can't be solved by current AI techniques and vision algorithms. The progress made so far has been quick, but it relies on technology that Google has already mastered. We'd be mistaken to think that the remaining challenges will be solved as easily.

It's a repeat of the classic mistake that has plagued the field of AI since the beginning: we underestimate the difficulty of problems that humans solve easily. We simply aren't aware of the incredible complexity involved in our simplest decisions, such as pulling over to allow an ambulance to pass. This is simple right? Just slow down and move off to the side of the road. But when is it OK to move off to the side -- what if there is something in the way, what if a pedestrian didn't expect you to move there, what if the car behind you suddenly gets in the way while it's pulling over, what if you're on a bridge, what if the ambulance behind you turned already and no one expects your car to suddenly pull over? Similar or more difficult problems arise when there's debris or potholes in the road, other poor drivers, bad weather, jaywalkers, policemen giving orders, road work, detours, etc.

What you find is that the last 5 or 10 percent of the capability required to make self-driving cars feasible represents a category of problems which we don't know how to solve, requiring a level of sophistication far beyond the current state of the art and perhaps approaching general intelligence in some cases (such as interpreting signs).

Better approaches involve shooting for more modest goals instead of full autonomy. Car companies are making investments in these more practical, incremental improvements, like automated parking and advanced cruise control.

But unlike car companies, Google isn't in this game because it thinks it can make a profitable and successful product. Instead, it's obvious that the main function of developing self-driving cars is as a PR tool (and the same goes for the rest of the Google-X projects). Google has gotten a lot of positive press for their self-driving cars, and they even use it to attract new employees.

However, I predict this positive press won't last (this article being an early example) because people's expectations are way too high. As years and years go by without much progress, Google's self-driving cars will increasingly become a PR liability and will be compared to the promised flying cars of yesteryear.

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