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Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

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Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#21

Post by burgers »

> Judge Preska of course feels differently, and she has consistently agreed with the prosecution argument that the physical location of email is irrelevant because Microsoft controls the data from its base in the United States.

I find this bit very interesting. As opposed to Microsoft being a US company, it is that it's operations are located in the US. I wonder what effects this decision could have on the US labor market if companies relocate operations in the same way they relocate certain things for tax avoidance.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#23

Post by lrem »

revelation wrote: post #7
jnbiche wrote: post #5

The casualness with which the U.S. Government asks a private company to violate EU and Irish law is truly disturbing. The U.S. Gov has gone mad with power. And for perhaps the first time ever: bravo Microsoft! I don't even care if you did if for the PR, it's still a brave stand.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

Well, I'd rather say all of these are valid reasons. Plus, not breaking the law in other places. Complying with this court order may get you sentenced in where you took the data from.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#24

Post by jkestner »

mercurial wrote: post #2

> Despite a federal court order directing Microsoft to turn overseas-held email data to federal authorities, the software giant said Friday it will continue to withhold that information as it waits for the case to wind through the appeals process. The judge has now ordered both Microsoft and federal prosecutors to advise her how to proceed by next Friday, September 5. > Let there be no doubt that Microsoft's actions…

Assigning noble motives to Microsoft's actions is ignoring the actual motives of a business. How do those same people explain why Microsoft has given the US government user information on other occasions? It's just a calculation of what's the best thing to do for the well-being of the business. Just as banks happily take a "record fine" for breaking the law because it's a small expense to making a lot of money.

We get in so much trouble trying to understand companies as if they're individual humans. Evolutionary biology for corporations needs to be taught.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#25

Post by danielrhodes »

idlewords wrote: post #9
revelation wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

You have no possible way to know that.

Let's look at these at these two facts:

1) Many companies have pulled their data from US-based data centers for fear of government intrusion after the Snowden revelations.

2) The future of Microsoft's server business is in the cloud and they have (likely) told customers their data is safe if stored in the EU

Thus it stands to reason that in order to keep customers and make money, they are motivated to win this case.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#27

Post by recalibrator »

mercurial wrote: post #2

> Despite a federal court order directing Microsoft to turn overseas-held email data to federal authorities, the software giant said Friday it will continue to withhold that information as it waits for the case to wind through the appeals process. The judge has now ordered both Microsoft and federal prosecutors to advise her how to proceed by next Friday, September 5. > Let there be no doubt that Microsoft's actions…

Mercurial has the most clear-headed read on the situation. His comment should be upvoted to the top.

As for Microsoft, they have demonstrated time and time again they are not aligned with the user but with Big Brother. They are lawful evil, to use D&D parlance.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#28

Post by jkestner »

bushido wrote: post #15
revelation wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

> They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. Why can't it be all three? Sticking to principles can be quite profitable, but it still needs balls.

Because if you believe they did it on principles, then you will have misplaced your trust and be worse off in the future. Microsoft has also turned over user information to the government. That doesn't sound like principles - at least not the same principles that I care about.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#29

Post by pyre »

okasaki wrote: post #10

They give it to the NSA, and the NSA shares it with other govt. bodies through that search engine (and probably a dozen other ways). Anyway, it always freaks me out a bit when people cheer a megacorp like MS. They're not fighting for you, they're fighting for your perception of them. The faster you cheer, the less they'll do.

At the same time, if they find that people are indifferent to actions like this, maybe they'll feel that it isn't worth their while.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#30

Post by jqm »

notastartup wrote: post #12

Good job for Microsoft being the first to stand up against a surveillance government. If only everyone else was brave enough to follow, we would see change.

I wouldn't say they are the first....

And that is assuming this is more than a choreographed piece of theater attempting to restore trust in US cloud services. Which maybe it is. And.... maybe it isn't.

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