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Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

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Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#11

Post by mariuolo »

revelation wrote: post #7
jnbiche wrote: post #5

The casualness with which the U.S. Government asks a private company to violate EU and Irish law is truly disturbing. The U.S. Gov has gone mad with power. And for perhaps the first time ever: bravo Microsoft! I don't even care if you did if for the PR, it's still a brave stand.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

Indeed, they're bound to lose many contracts if they're forced to comply.

Also it would be interesting to see if someone would be criminally liable in Ireland.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#13

Post by sz4kerto »

revelation wrote: post #7
jnbiche wrote: post #5

The casualness with which the U.S. Government asks a private company to violate EU and Irish law is truly disturbing. The U.S. Gov has gone mad with power. And for perhaps the first time ever: bravo Microsoft! I don't even care if you did if for the PR, it's still a brave stand.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

Well, we can say that every company does everything only for money, and that's probably not far from the truth. However, exactly because this can be taken as an universal truth, it's generally advisable to not ponder on this while discussing what and how they do, because it does not add anything to the conversation. In this case, we can agree that it's the right thing (for us). Similarly, if you buy a good car, you don't always think on that 'they made this only for money'.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#14

Post by tracker1 »

ryanburk wrote: post #4

if the ruling is upheld, web services that face legal discovery like google, dropbox, facebook, microsoft, etc will face an amazing burden of data retention cost. there is an amazing tax already on these services having to implement per government specific retention policies based on where they do business. for example in ireland, by law you need to be able to produce up to a year of content even if an account has be…

That said, I don't think this has much to do with protecting MS's customers, or for that matter standing up for them as it is presented. I'm pretty sure it's more about MS operations being able to continue to run in Ireland and the rest of the EU. If MS hands this data over, you can be assured that MS would face stiff penalties and restrictions to even be able to operate in the EU, and would likely have their Azure facilities shut down as a result.

MS is stuck between a rock and a hard place here, no doubt, and I think it's important for this stand to be made. Hopefully sanity will prevail here...

I don't think the U.S. government would appreciate if Google were forced to turn over the Google Apps data of scientific universities to China because of a court order there.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#15

Post by bushido »

revelation wrote: post #7
jnbiche wrote: post #5

The casualness with which the U.S. Government asks a private company to violate EU and Irish law is truly disturbing. The U.S. Gov has gone mad with power. And for perhaps the first time ever: bravo Microsoft! I don't even care if you did if for the PR, it's still a brave stand.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

> They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money.

Why can't it be all three?

Sticking to principles can be quite profitable, but it still needs balls.

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#17

Post by shawnz »

revelation wrote: post #7
jnbiche wrote: post #5

The casualness with which the U.S. Government asks a private company to violate EU and Irish law is truly disturbing. The U.S. Gov has gone mad with power. And for perhaps the first time ever: bravo Microsoft! I don't even care if you did if for the PR, it's still a brave stand.

They did it neither for PR nor "principles", but for mere money. The US data hegemony is bad for business overseas.

Is there a difference morally between doing it for PR and doing it for money?

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#18

Post by vermontdevil »

hartator wrote: post #8

maybe I am some kind of sheep but this kind of stand makes me strongly consider again Microsoft as a platform of choice against Apple. Bravo Microsoft.

I don't see Apple mentioned in this article so why "against Apple" ?

But then again even Microsoft has been complicit with PRISM along with Apple and many other Silicon Valley companies. (Yes I know Microsoft is not Silicon Valley)

Re: Microsoft Defies Court Order, Will Not Give Emails to US Government

#19

Post by silencio »

hartator wrote: post #8

maybe I am some kind of sheep but this kind of stand makes me strongly consider again Microsoft as a platform of choice against Apple. Bravo Microsoft.

Not to be an Apple apologist, but do we know if Apple's faced a case like this? Or other companies? It's not like Microsoft chose to be targeted here. My guess is that this is so insanely overreaching that the major industry players would have done the same as MS if they were the ones hosting this one Irish email account in question. Plus, Apple and others have filed briefs in support of MS and have been lobbying against what's been going on.

I personally would have enjoyed listening to more of Tim Cook on this topic if Apple and MS swapped places. Earlier this year, he said the USG needed to cart employees out in a box before they can get access to Apple servers. Interesting quote for sure.

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