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Why doctors are sick of their profession

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Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#31

Post by jjoonathan »

jprince wrote: post #26

I think we're the new independent professionals. Nobody has required a license to "practice technology" (yet, but I suspect California will find a way eventually...) and so we can do our job anywhere, for any hours, for any pay. Until bureaucracy swallows us up(as it does all professions ultimately) we'll have our golden age too.

It won't be bureaucracy that kills us but rather the inevitable grind of economics. Once our industry stops growing and the supply of programmers has a chance to catch up with demand, our bargaining position weakens and the impact will be felt across the board. Those in corporations will find higher expectations (even longer hours), less respect, lower pay, and fewer benefits. Those who are "independent" will find it more difficult to acquire funding, a higher probability of failure on launch, and lower returns even when they do manage to "crush it."

This has already happened to older engineering professions and it has already happened to sectors of the software engineering world that have a different supply/demand balance than the mainstream (see: game developers). It will happen to us too. Hopefully not in the near future.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#32

Post by ntkachov »

kelukelugames wrote: post #29

Do you know what's incredible? Plenty of SDE 2s make more than 200k a year, and plenty of doctors don't. I'm not sure if we are overpaid or they are underpaid.

we've got the market playing for us. Once supply catches up, there won't be as high of a salary.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#34

Post by jschwartzi »

chubot wrote: post #8
ch4s3 wrote: post #4

More work for less pay huh? Being squeezed by profit taking business people at the top... surely no one other than doctors can relate to such changes in the economy. *Edit I am of course being a bit sarcastic. It's interesting to see how shifts in the general economy are changing the medical profession.

That's not a helpful comment. It's already addressed in the article anyway: Of course, doctors aren't the only professionals who are unhappy today. Many professions, including law and teaching, have become constrained by corporate structures, resulting in loss of autonomy, status, and respect. Personally I think the history lesson in the article was great. It makes me wonder about programmers. We are riding high now.…

Software Engineering is a regulated profession in some cases.

Here's one of numerous standards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62304

Here's some FDA guidance covering Software Validation in Medical Devices:

http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/deviceregulationandguidanc...

It's absolutely essential that the FDA and international standards be applied when building a medical device, and that means that software must be developed according to the regulations.

Here's one reason why:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#35

Post by wirrbel »

727374 wrote: post #11

I think it's funny that the first picture in the article is of a doctor taking a patient's blood pressure. It's a little ironic because I've never actually had a doctor take my blood pressure (in the US). I'm not even sure if I've had a nurse do it, but more likely a physician's assistant or phlebotomist. Just like other industries medicine has been turned into an assembly line where patients are herded through the s…

What has always confused me is that the perceived gap between doctors and nurses is so big. I have the impression that nurses could benefit a lot from better training and there could be a good case for positions somewhere between a nurse and a doctor. Considering the effect that _care_ (time with patient) has on patients the current model with a demi-god in white just does not scale.

My optometrist (the guy selling glasses) measured my eye sight and found that I needed a correction for some corneal irregularity (pardon me if I did not translate the terms right). I had never been given such a reading from my ophthalmologist (eye doctor) who just wrote down dioptry corrections. My optometrist then told me that the specific doctor never wrote down these numbers (i.e. ignoring a condition). This tought me a lot about medical professionals and highly educated doctors. My doctor probably is just a little bored to measure and monitor visual acuity changes in a person with small eyesight issues. That ophthalmologist also had very good reputation working with accident victims, etc.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#36

Post by praptak »

All this sounds quite a bit like Marx's theory of alienation:

"The theoretic basis of alienation within the capitalist mode of production is that the worker invariably loses the ability to determine his or her life and destiny, when deprived of the right to think (conceive) of himself as the director of his actions; to determine the character of said actions; to define their relationship with other people; and to own the things and use the value of the goods and services, produced with their labour."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_alienation

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#37

Post by dobbsbob »

Surprised the average income for a GP is $161,000 in the US, thought they would be paid more than Canadian MDs who's average is $300k http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/healt...

Canada also heavily relies on US medical labs in Houston. I had to have a blood analysis done as part of a health check for a work contract years ago and my provincial health authority shipped my samples there for testing. It's cheaper for Canada to outsource all this work to Americans wonder what they are paying lab technicians.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#38

Post by toasted »

Non-US anaesthesiologist here. I love my job and relish going to work each morning. I spend almost no time on non-clinical paperwork. I work reasonable hours, have some busy on-call shifts but am generally well supported by my department. I earn good money in the state system - enough to raise a family comfortably and have a nice house, but not silly money. I pay no malpractice insurance, but pay $400 annually to a non-profit society for medico-legal cover. If I want to I can do additional private sector work to earn more (but I don't). I live in a country where a high standard of medical care and longer life expectancy is provided for less than half the per capita health spend of USA, and the public health system is so good that the private health sector really does struggle to offer much additional benefit.

There are many great examples of socialised health systems in the world, I'm not sure why the US ignores them? Some of the WSJ comments list all the problems inherent in the US system and then blame socialism for them when the problem is completely the opposite?

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#39

Post by ArkyBeagle »

The business model for doctors works out to is surviving a grueling educational process to gain a license against which they charge rents.

The business model for professional athletes devolves to surviving a grueling selection process in the service of building their brand as a performer against which they can charge rents.

The business model for performing musicians devolves to surviving a grueling selection process in the service of building their brand as a performer against which they can charge rents.

This has a personal cost.

Re: Why doctors are sick of their profession

#40

Post by tarr11 »

toasted wrote: post #38

Non-US anaesthesiologist here. I love my job and relish going to work each morning. I spend almost no time on non-clinical paperwork. I work reasonable hours, have some busy on-call shifts but am generally well supported by my department. I earn good money in the state system - enough to raise a family comfortably and have a nice house, but not silly money. I pay no malpractice insurance, but pay $400 annually to a n…

In which country do you work as an anaesthesiologist?
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