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Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

technologyreview.com

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Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#11

Post by anigbrowl »

QuantumChaos wrote: post #10
anigbrowl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endogenous factors are addressed in the paper. Nothing personal, but I'm getting so tired of people on HN saying 'well, maybe they made an elementary statistical mistake...' They're professional statisticans working with a large and robust dataset,a nd they devoted 6-7 pages of the paper to discussing how they controlled for such factors. And they brought up your exact point in the very first paragraph of that discus…

I agree that we should always at least read the linked article (and sometimes the original paper) before bringing out "correlation does not equal causation". However, you are overstating the case for the author's having dealt with reverse causality. From the conclusion: When we addressed causality in IV estimates, the significance of the correlation between participation in social networking sites and subjective well…

I'm not trying to make any comment on the significance of the result; the authors discuss those factors in detail in the body of the paper (around page 20) as well as mentioning the limitations in the abstract and conclusion.

My gripe is with reflexive and unjustified statistical one-upmanship in HN discussions.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#12

Post by xux »

The title is misleading. Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness, in fact it's the opposite. It gives you a jolt of brief happiness.

This can explain the correlation. It's not hard to see why people who are unhappy with their lives would spend more time on Facebook.

Facebook is an alternative place where you can get a brief sense of "social" feeling. If you're perpetually unhappy and lonely, you crave it more. And the more you time you spend on it, the worse you feel about your life, causing you to crave it even more. Vicious cycle.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#13

Post by goldfeld »

xux wrote: post #12

The title is misleading. Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness, in fact it's the opposite. It gives you a jolt of brief happiness. This can explain the correlation. It's not hard to see why people who are unhappy with their lives would spend more time on Facebook. Facebook is an alternative place where you can get a brief sense of "social" feeling. If you're perpetually unhappy and lonely, you cra…

A jolt of brief happiness, not unlike that produced by a sugar spike, may not be all healthy. It's addictive and conditions you to procure instant rewards more, at the expense of delaying gratification which is essential for having some control over your life over the long haul (habits, hobbies, relationships, projects all take concerted effort with non-imediate payoffs.) In other words, the easy availability of these jolts of brief happiness (and ones not associated with getting fat or spending money) may well set the user up for long-term unhappiness.

I'm disheartened to see many of my friends who were never gamers (hence mostly women) now fall prey to addictive social games like Candy Crush and that Kim Kardashian shit, which are things tightly coupled with Facebook usage. I happily find myself immune to their draw--my teens were spent getting on and off addiction to all sorts of games, including even dating sims, though most having far more depth and intellectual stimulation.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#14

Post by fein »

thinkmassive wrote: post #6
fein wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it though: No one has much of an interest of presenting anything less than a "beautiful" life on FB. What you're watching in that news feed isn't reality, it's a carefully curated set of ideal content to make that person look better/happier/richer than they actually are. Everyone has demons, but no one wants to air that to their peers.

I think you're focusing on the wrong part of the point being made by notastartup though. Given that people are going to try to make their selves look good regardless, it's wise to be selective in who you let into your newsfeed. Someone who connects with a lot of people they barely know will be worse off than someone who only accepts (and requests) connections to people with whom they have a close enough relationship…

My point was to remind people that they simply shouldn't care. It's like getting mad at yourself because you don't look like that perfectly cut (and photoshopped) Abercrombie model.

It's not an accurate representation of reality. I don't use facebook outside of what is required for API usage on whatever random dev project I get thrown into this week. The people that are truly in your circle of acquaintances probably don't need FB to stay in touch.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#15

Post by frostmatthew »

fein wrote: post #4
notastartup wrote: post #3

I signed up on facebook because my friends went on a trip and I wanted to see the photos of the foreign country they are visiting. When you add people you barely know, I think it would be a different feel when they upload how beautiful their life is.

That's just it though: No one has much of an interest of presenting anything less than a "beautiful" life on FB. What you're watching in that news feed isn't reality, it's a carefully curated set of ideal content to make that person look better/happier/richer than they actually are. Everyone has demons, but no one wants to air that to their peers.

> Everyone has demons, but no one wants to air that to their peers.

The only people who would think nobody bitches/whines/complains on FB are those that have never used it.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#16

Post by Havoc »

Online social networks are fine on a conceptual level...beautiful even. Its the commercial interpretation that is completely screwed.

Profit driven, privacy invading, dark pattern driven kind of bullsht. Today my phone wanted me to install this (additional) facebook app to read my friend's 2 line message to me. i.e. Blocking the 2nd half of the message and giving me two options - link to useless help article and an install their app button (hiding the fact that the existing app can read the message - which btw strangely didn't trigger the usual alert). So...Dear Facebook...go * yourself. And yes FB employees reading this - I really do feel like that.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#17

Post by dwaltrip »

Havoc wrote: post #16

Online social networks are fine on a conceptual level...beautiful even. Its the commercial interpretation that is completely screwed. Profit driven, privacy invading, dark pattern driven kind of bullsht. Today my phone wanted me to install this (additional) facebook app to read my friend's 2 line message to me. i.e. Blocking the 2nd half of the message and giving me two options - link to useless help article and an i…

The faults you are identifying are not related to the article. The implication of the article is broader. It would seem to imply that the statement

Online social networks are fine on a conceptual level...beautiful even.

may not be true. Of course, this topic needs further study.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#18

Post by serf »

frostmatthew wrote: post #15
fein wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just it though: No one has much of an interest of presenting anything less than a "beautiful" life on FB. What you're watching in that news feed isn't reality, it's a carefully curated set of ideal content to make that person look better/happier/richer than they actually are. Everyone has demons, but no one wants to air that to their peers.

> Everyone has demons, but no one wants to air that to their peers. The only people who would think nobody bitches/whines/complains on FB are those that have never used it.

It's not that people don't whine, it's that when they whine they are always in the right (obviously untrue). It's a part of the creation of an image that the participants want to portray to other participants, just like the cherry-picked photos and favorite media.

A person who strongly follows particular trends and styles on facebook is much more likely to share the same favorite medias as those facebook participants who share similar interests; this is two-sided, though. On one hand, you could say that it's the interests that shaped the person into the trends and styles that they participate, but the other possibility is that the person is emulating people who have the styles and trends that they wish for themselves, and simply merging information from a suitable profile.

Ever wonder how your friends found the time to read through A Brief History of Time and GEB without you ever knowing of their interests in science and math, or ever having caught them reading a book?

They didn't.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#19

Post by wutbrodo »

xux wrote: post #12

The title is misleading. Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness, in fact it's the opposite. It gives you a jolt of brief happiness. This can explain the correlation. It's not hard to see why people who are unhappy with their lives would spend more time on Facebook. Facebook is an alternative place where you can get a brief sense of "social" feeling. If you're perpetually unhappy and lonely, you cra…

> Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness

> And the more you time you spend on it, the worse you feel about your life

These two statements directly contradict each other. If something gives you a brief jolt of happiness and "the more time you spend on it, the worse you feel about your life", it's only superficially true that it gives you happiness, and it's much much more correct to say that it causes unhappiness.

I'm literally only using the propositions from your own comment here.

Re: Evidence Grows That Online Social Networks Have Negative Effects

#20

Post by marcosdumay »

wutbrodo wrote: post #19
xux wrote: post #12

The title is misleading. Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness, in fact it's the opposite. It gives you a jolt of brief happiness. This can explain the correlation. It's not hard to see why people who are unhappy with their lives would spend more time on Facebook. Facebook is an alternative place where you can get a brief sense of "social" feeling. If you're perpetually unhappy and lonely, you cra…

> Spending time on social networks doesn't cause unhapiness > And the more you time you spend on it, the worse you feel about your life These two statements directly contradict each other. If something gives you a brief jolt of happiness and "the more time you spend on it, the worse you feel about your life", it's only superficially true that it gives you happiness, and it's much much more correct to say that it caus…

They don't contradict each other. It's "correlation does not imply causation" framed differently.
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