Live data from Hacker News

Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

liveuamap.com

171–180 of 180 posts

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#171
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that when a region is under strict military occupation, those who oppose the occupation cannot exactly openly voice their protests, while those who like it, can. There is a portion of the population who support the annexation of Crimea, but you cannot make any real judgement of it's size by the data we have. (IMHO It's probably >50%).

What evidence is there that during the vote there was "strict military occupation"?

Among other things, the statements of Crimean Ukrainians and Tatars who have since then fled the place? If you were not part of the Russian majority you very much have to keep your head down.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#172
post #164
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

I'm curious: is the pro-Russian perspective that the civilian airliner that was shot down NOT by pro-Russian forces?

Well, I think this illustrates the situation somewhat well (if you think the conspiracy theorists in the west are nuts...): http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/1872w0/julia-ioffe

If you want a more official position, google site:rt.com mh17 and you'll find lots of articles. I'll leave it for the reader to judge their presentation of the situation.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#173
post #167
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We remember what they reported in 2003 about wmd:s in Iraq so everything they say today must be read with suspicion. I still don't get why people say that : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=40142&Cr=iraq&C... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/17/chemical-ali-de... And yet the idea that Saddam did not have - or use - chemical weapons is treated as go…

Really? Really? Are you serious?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destr...

Thanks for the link to the document. It is a well-written and almost balanced account of the situation.

It does not support the assertion that Iraq did not have WMD's. Instead, it clearly states and illustrates that Iraq was building and improving the know-how and industrial capability to produce and use WMD's, including sarin-based chemical missiles and nuclear weapons, but during the 1995-2003 period wasn't producing actual WMD's (aside from limited development prototypes). They were certainly intending to use them in the future.

So yes, technically you're right that Iraq would not have had significant actual WMD capability in 2003. It did have the capability to change that very quickly.

So yes, this page answered what happened to the gun : it was kept disassembled in the backyard. I fully support the decision not to let Iraq keep the disassembled gun. I also find the assertion that without the Iraq war, groups like al-qaeda and/or hamas might have had the capability of firing long-range (100-200 km) guided missiles with Sarin and/or Anthrax payloads credible, although of course not proven.

(given the discoveries, this once again illustrates that you cannot trust the UN to do anything right. This "mistake" is once again a very, very strong indication that the UN WANTS to be deceived on these matters. As I've heard the UN described "Aid to dictators, on the condition that they violate human rights on a grand scale. This advances the cause of human rights worldwide ! Give us money !". That is a perfectly accurate assessment of that organisation)

> In June 2004, the United States removed 2 tons of low-enriched uranium from Iraq, sufficient raw material for a single nuclear weapon.[108]

> "ISG has gathered testimony from missile designers at Al Kindi State Company that Iraq has reinitiated work on converting SA-2 Surface-to-Air Missiles into ballistic missiles with a range goal of about 250 km. Engineering work was reportedly underway in early 2003, despite the presence of UNMOVIC. This program was not declared to the UN."

> "ISG has developed multiple sources of testimony, which is corroborated in part by a captured document, that Iraq undertook a program aimed at increasing the HY-2's range and permitting its use as a land-attack missile. These efforts extended the HY-2's range from its original 100 km to 150–180 km. Ten modified missiles were delivered to the military prior to OIF and two of these were fired from Umm Qasr during OIF – one was shot down and one hit Kuwait."

> On July 2008, 550 metric tonnes of "yellowcake" the last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium, arrived in Montreal as part of a top-secret U.S. operation. This transport of the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment, included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a voyage across two oceans. The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth "tens of millions of dollars."[117]

And of course the beginnings of leaks into terrorist organisations :

> A 7 pound block of cyanide salt was discovered by U.S. military in safe-house for Abu Musab Zarqawi, an al-Qaeda affiliated terrorist residing in Iraq since prior the U.S. invasion.[110] The poison block was discovered in a raid of the safe-house on January 23 of 2003.[111]

(7 pound of cyanide salt is enough to kill everybody in a small town if you can get it to disperse through the air. Granted, probably wouldn't work with even mild wind conditions, but properly executed on an idealy moment, it can kill thousands)

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#174
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many hackers like me are quite anti-authorian and anti-establishment. The establishment and the media have clearly decided who the bad guys in the conflict are (Russia) and it's obvious from all the reporting. We remember what they reported in 2003 about wmd:s in Iraq so everything they say today must be read with suspicion. In many former USSR countries there are large Russian minorities living which was mov…

> We remember what they reported in 2003 about wmd:s in Iraq so everything they say today must be read with suspicion. I still don't get why people say that : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=40142&Cr=iraq&C... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/17/chemical-ali-de... And yet the idea that Saddam did not have - or use - chemical weapons is treated as go…

If it makes you happier, imagine that I wrote that the media can't be trusted because it's controlled by liberal left-wing communists rather than it's completely stellar and non-biased reporting on Iraq in 2003.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, notice in the first article the copious justification and lack of denunciation or demonization. Completely different from MH17.

The first article reports the "copious" justification given by other sources. Please show me the denunciation and demonization in NYT or WP articles regarding MH17. It's also rather different since the culpable party owned up to the tragedy rather than trying to blame the other party. And this after celebrating the (mistaken) kill on social media...

> The first article reports the "copious" justification given by other sources

Which isn't done when it is the enemy. Here is a media analysis of the Iranian downing with the downing of a Korean airliner by Russia during the same period. http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/kal-007-and-iran-air-6...

Here are examples for MH17 after cursory searches (imagine swapping Russia/US in the sentences).

https://twitter.com/fstonenyt/status/489926529619476480

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/opinion/malaysia-airlines-...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/opinion/roger-cohen-malays...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/masha-gessen-does-...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/opinion/Putins-Unconvincin...

This isn't to equate Russian and American propaganda, only pointing out the material and serious distortions of western media.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#176
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where to start. Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine. Do you doubt that a second referendum would give a different result? What did the west do in and with Yugoslavia? What about the NATO expansion towards Russia? What would the US do if Russia starts fucking around with Mexico? Read this book and understand the foreign policy of the US and all the conflicts happening near Rus…

> Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine. You must be awful at Christmas. "I'm glad you enjoyed your present. Give it back now."

Nothing hurts more than the truth.

They had a referendum. Remember? Are you telling me the result would be different if done again? If so, why is the west not asking for this?

I don't believe in slavery. "Let my people go" is a phrase from the bible.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#177

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

As an American... Please don't read it as support for Russia but standard geopolitical fair. Because of the leaked Victoria Nuland phone call ( http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 ), it's pretty clear that the US is engaged in some clandestine nation-building in Ukraine. This is not democracy but corruption of democracy. In this situation, Russia is being an opportunist by securing its interests in the area…

(As a Ukrainian)

I wonder what kind of secret nation-building activities could US be engaged in? Last events that raised the patriotism level were annexing of one region and bringing deadly unrest to another and both had come from the same world power. I can't see the other 2 tearing us apart. Not that they had to. People are shifting towards West even more thanks to east neighbour's aggression.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#178
post #81

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

> pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown

1) That pro-russian government was corrupt as hell (as Putin's government is). You can google photo proofs. It's not a secret really for anyone.

2) Is there a way to overthrow a government legitimately? Neither fair elections, courts, or referendum were available

Is it propaganda when I'm stating Russia annexed the part of the foreign state and want to do it once more?

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#179
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal or not they do seem to represent the will of the people, http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/crimea-celebrat...

You do realize that when a region is under strict military occupation, those who oppose the occupation cannot exactly openly voice their protests, while those who like it, can. There is a portion of the population who support the annexation of Crimea, but you cannot make any real judgement of it's size by the data we have. (IMHO It's probably >50%).

I'm not going to claim that I know one way or the other (I think it's pretty difficult at this point) but here's another data point, http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2014/05/12/pew-poll-cri...

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#180
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody wants to start WWIII, but this has to be disturbing developments for countries like Poland, Romania, etc. Don't you mean that you have no delusions that NATO will engage in conflict? Otherwise you're saying you think they will.

I am Polish. It is extremely disturbing. What I find most appalling is that Western Europe seems to have learned nothing from our shared history. We already had crazy leaders invade small neighboring countries, and we tried to appease them without raising too much of a fuss, so as to preserve economic interests. This is how it begins. Now — we start to see history repeat itself, and what do European countries do? Fra…

Would you say that when Germany and USSR invaded Poland in 1939, UK & France should have started a war against Germany and USSR at the same time?
Post reply on HN