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I'm not surprised by this, but I am surprised that the author didn't mention her past research on this topic. Her shock at the "discovery" seems a little disingenuous. http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=13513
Is it possible that professional women are more abrasive than men in aggregate? I am not saying that is the case, only that it is another hypothesis from the data. If that was the case and I had to guess a reason, it would be that groups with more power insecurity tend to overcompensate in other areas. Another explanation could be industry. More women work in Fashion and marketing, which have generally more dramatic…
It's possible, but the likelihood is so low some might wonder why you're bringing that possibility up rather than discuss the much more likely alternative and how we can fix it. Also; "I asked men and women in tech if they would be willing to share their reviews for a study and didn’t stipulate anything else."
Are both of those really that unlikely?
We have arguments here all the time about perceived vs actual sexism or the effects of cultural gender norms, and have female-specific business self-help books.
Is it possible that professional women are more abrasive than men in aggregate? I am not saying that is the case, only that it is another hypothesis from the data. If that was the case and I had to guess a reason, it would be that groups with more power insecurity tend to overcompensate in other areas. Another explanation could be industry. More women work in Fashion and marketing, which have generally more dramatic…
It's possible, but the likelihood is so low some might wonder why you're bringing that possibility up rather than discuss the much more likely alternative and how we can fix it. Also; "I asked men and women in tech if they would be willing to share their reviews for a study and didn’t stipulate anything else."
also, it's much more acceptable to challenge a woman's authority than it is a man's. when all you want to do is get things done, this social norm slows you down. you have to explain, persuade, and butter up your peers more as a woman. this is just one way that these subtle biases can lead to divergent outcomes (seeming to be less effective and successful in this case).
My immediate thought when I saw this a few days ago was "sampling bias" -- not that the author had a biased sample of professional women, but rather that professional women are a biased sample of women. Given the social environment -- pushing both females and males away from what they might have preferred as a life trajectory -- I think it's very likely that the average professional woman is significantly more aggres…
My immediate thought when I saw this a few days ago was "sampling bias" -- not that the author had a biased sample of professional women, but rather that professional women are a biased sample of women. Given the social environment -- pushing both females and males away from what they might have preferred as a life trajectory -- I think it's very likely that the average professional woman is significantly more aggres…
I don't see the problem in sampling only professional women when the hypothesis is whether professional women are rated differently than professional men. It would be problematic if this hypothesis was tested with a sample from the overall female population. Non-professional women don't have reviews to be useful to the study. What you described is an explanation for WHY they are rated different. It doesn't discredit…
The point is that you can't know whether they're rated differently (by different criteria) or actually different.
My immediate thought when I saw this a few days ago was "sampling bias" -- not that the author had a biased sample of professional women, but rather that professional women are a biased sample of women. Given the social environment -- pushing both females and males away from what they might have preferred as a life trajectory -- I think it's very likely that the average professional woman is significantly more aggres…
I don't see the problem in sampling only professional women when the hypothesis is whether professional women are rated differently than professional men. It would be problematic if this hypothesis was tested with a sample from the overall female population. Non-professional women don't have reviews to be useful to the study. What you described is an explanation for WHY they are rated different. It doesn't discredit…
It's possible that there's a hiring bias, and reviews are being done fairly, but show biased results when naively studied because of the underlying bias.
This is what makes social statistics hard, and there are many faults in studies involving gender that fail to account for possible confounding effects in the data.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"More women work in Fashion and marketing, which have generally more dramatic environments." Do you have data on this?
Data point: My girlfriend is a tech designer who's worked at Guess, Hot Topic, and a slew of smaller companies. She absolutely loathes the working environment because of the drama and bitterly regrets getting into the industry. She's considering going into customer service in a call center(!) (a 50%+ pay cut) because the work environments are so stressful in the fashion industry. She explicitly blames it on the gende…
But let's say we accept it. We still need data on the "relative drama" of male-dominated industries. And considering this includes industries like finance, law and policing, I think you might be surprised what the answer turns out to be.
it's not that women are more aggressive, it's that they're perceived as more aggressive relative to expectations (by both male & female managers). also, it's much more acceptable to challenge a woman's authority than it is a man's. when all you want to do is get things done, this social norm slows you down. you have to explain, persuade, and butter up your peers more as a woman. this is just one way that these subtle…