Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#61

Post by bsaul » Thu, Aug 28, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #59

bsaul wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on... Has anyone in the US been arrested for political views after being wired or spied on the internet ?? Ever ? I'm sorry to be blunt, but all the americans that think they're living under a surveillance state should truly get their ass in any non-western country in the world before claiming such BS. People here are so spoiled it makes me sick sometimes.

Just because some countries have it more wrong doesn't mean criticisms of US policy are invalid, it's really a silly argument.

Yes it absolutely does.

Qualifying the US as a "surveillance state" ( and not as something-that-could-one-day-become-as-such-if-people-don't-pay-attention) , means you think you have no freedom of speech ( at least on the internet). This is outrageous, not only compared to countries were you can actually be arrested for a tweet, but also because it means you actually have no clue as to what kind of country you live in.

As a young french adult, i tried to protest once against a government law i found revolting, by sitting peacefuly and quietly in front of the Elysee ( the white house equivalent) with a sign. I immediatly got arrested, my ID card was taken for a check, and i was told to move on. I said i found it surprising they did that, and the french policemen told me "well, you've seen people doing that on TV but this isn't the US here".

And yet, i am very able to make the difference between france and china, where people would face actual prison for that. Because i have a god damn sense of proportion.

There isn't an absolutely "free" country. A nation means laws and regulations, it is a compromise. You compromise a little bit on your personnal freedom for the sake of general interest. It's a complex matter, not a binary switch.

So all qualification of a country has to be done in comparison with other countries, facing the same kind of threat, and see how they deal with the situation. If you find a western country that doesn't "spy" the net, just tell me. They do it for child porn, drug traffic, and terrorisms. And to me that's absolutely great, as long as it remains for those purposes.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#62

Post by shadowalker » Thu, Aug 28, 2014, 10:13 PM UTC

I totally agree with your dumb decision to go for whichever one with the higher paying. Both companies are extremely large, extremely pushy and extremely boring.

If you ask me what would be the difference between joining the two companies, I would say not so many people know about Palantir, but Facebook is well-renowned all around the world. Facebook could add a lot to your future resume.

After all, employees in the IT industry are flowing between companies pretty quickly. If you regret joining Palantir, I think you are always welcome to come back to Facebook, and vice versa.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#63

Post by iamwithnail » Thu, Aug 28, 2014, 10:20 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #61

tehwebguy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because some countries have it more wrong doesn't mean criticisms of US policy are invalid, it's really a silly argument.

Yes it absolutely does. Qualifying the US as a "surveillance state" ( and not as something-that-could-one-day-become-as-such-if-people-don't-pay-attention) , means you think you have no freedom of speech ( at least on the internet). This is outrageous, not only compared to countries were you can actually be arrested for a tweet, but also because it means you actually have no clue as to what kind of country you live i…

Freedom of speech and surveillance are very different things. The crucial part of surveillance is that you're being monitored on what you say, fairly routinely. Whether or not the authorities take exception to what you say/who you speak to in private communications is another matter, which qualifies only the nature of the surveillance society, not whether it exists.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#64

Post by bsaul » Thu, Aug 28, 2014, 10:24 PM UTC

iamwithnail wrote: post #60

bsaul wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on... Has anyone in the US been arrested for political views after being wired or spied on the internet ?? Ever ? I'm sorry to be blunt, but all the americans that think they're living under a surveillance state should truly get their ass in any non-western country in the world before claiming such BS. People here are so spoiled it makes me sick sometimes.

Firstly, this argument isn't just limited to the US. But what the US does has repercussions for the rest of the world, particularly the UK. So on that, have people been arrested (and otherwise harassed) for political views in the UK? Yes. There were around 150 known activists tracked and arrested before the Royal Wedding here because they might 'cause a scene'. An incredibly trivial example that highlights perfectly…

I'm sorry, my point was specificaly about the US which has an almost religious relationship to its right of speech. Something that, to my knowledge, doesn't exist in Europe for various historical reasons.

Thanks for the interesting facts about UK though. Although i don't think the internet has changed the nature of any state. Countries that abuse internet surveillance now probably abused phone wiring and police investigation on individuals before.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#65

Post by iamwithnail » Fri, Aug 29, 2014, 5:40 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #64

iamwithnail wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, this argument isn't just limited to the US. But what the US does has repercussions for the rest of the world, particularly the UK. So on that, have people been arrested (and otherwise harassed) for political views in the UK? Yes. There were around 150 known activists tracked and arrested before the Royal Wedding here because they might 'cause a scene'. An incredibly trivial example that highlights perfectly…

I'm sorry, my point was specificaly about the US which has an almost religious relationship to its right of speech. Something that, to my knowledge, doesn't exist in Europe for various historical reasons. Thanks for the interesting facts about UK though. Although i don't think the internet has changed the nature of any state. Countries that abuse internet surveillance now probably abused phone wiring and police inves…

That's exactly my point, though (and was to the French guy below). Your original point was 'have people in the US been arrested after being wiretapped or spied on over the internet?' Yes.

The argument is always made that they were 'planning/conspiring' a particular act, something that's rarely taken through to prosecution/conviction, it's a well known harassment technique (as was overtly surveilling people with 'undercover' cars and foot patrols) by the FBI and the larger city police departments.

So yes, people have been arrested for expressing their views, which were caught via surveillance, because law enforcement abused the information they had and brought trumped up charges. The UK examples I gave was because I'm more familiar with the stuff here - the US has a great and grimy history of abusing surveillance powers, from Hoover's FBI onwards.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#66

Post by api » Fri, Aug 29, 2014, 10:26 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #42

hadoukenio wrote: post #6

I saw this in my RSS feed. Without seeing the text, I actually thought this post was going to be a question of which company was more evil. Downvotes welcomed, but I stand by my point.

Is there a large company that a significant number of folks on HN don't think is evil? Amazon, maybe?

I personally don't see Apple or Microsoft as being that evil. Microsoft is less evil today than in the past. Google is kind of a complicated case. Facebook is sketchy but at least using them is a choice. Palantir is evil.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#67

Post by i_do_both » Sat, Aug 30, 2014, 1:38 AM UTC

alanctgardner3 wrote: post #19

I spoke to a Palantir recruiter once, if you aren't in the Bay Area you'll be doing customisation for customers - not the core engineering stuff that's really cool. Do you know what team at FB you'd be working with? For me the job itself is the most important thing: I wouldn't want to sling PHP, but FB has amazing teams who wrote Hive, Scribe, Presto, HHVM, etc.

"if you aren't in the Bay Area you'll be doing customisation for customers"

False.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#68

Post by deepak-iiitb » Sat, Aug 30, 2014, 5:39 AM UTC

I would say align yourself with your long-term career goals and the team that you were offered to work with. For instance, if you would like to start of your won soemtime, working in a small team can benefit a lot.