A Rails like framework for Clojure. • Hacker News Board

Re: A Rails like framework for Clojure.

#21

Post by jamesbritt » Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 7:04 AM UTC

sunkencity wrote: post #7

henning wrote: post #4

All these Rails clones! They think they can just ape Rails' idioms and then they'll have the power of Ruby's metaprogramming at their disposal and -- oh, wait.

rails is a pretty mature framework these days, and it's got tons of plugins that are actually easy to use. It's a pretty steep road to get something up to those standards. When I need something that has everything already neatly solved and ready for cranking out stuff fast -- I always chose rails. I'm currently trying to learn clojure and enjoying it immensely. It's a lot like ruby (powerful and fun) but with easier…

"One thing that bugs me with most of the clojure web frameworks that I have looked at is that they a. use ant instead of maven ..."

Wouldn't it be better still to use something that is, and uses, Clojure?

One thing (among many) that I like about using JRuby is that I can use Ruby for config files and admin tasks. It may be a JVM language but I shouldn't have to use Java tools for routine tasks.

Re: A Rails like framework for Clojure.

#22

Post by sunkencity » Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 7:31 AM UTC

jamesbritt wrote: post #21

sunkencity wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rails is a pretty mature framework these days, and it's got tons of plugins that are actually easy to use. It's a pretty steep road to get something up to those standards. When I need something that has everything already neatly solved and ready for cranking out stuff fast -- I always chose rails. I'm currently trying to learn clojure and enjoying it immensely. It's a lot like ruby (powerful and fun) but with easier…

"One thing that bugs me with most of the clojure web frameworks that I have looked at is that they a. use ant instead of maven ..." Wouldn't it be better still to use something that is, and uses, Clojure? One thing (among many) that I like about using JRuby is that I can use Ruby for config files and admin tasks. It may be a JVM language but I shouldn't have to use Java tools for routine tasks.

Yes it would be better. The 2 key issues that maven solves for me is depencency management (specify which version of jar you need) and a consistent build enviroment across projects. Maven sucks in a lot of aspects mainly because it's rather opaque compared to ant -- hard to know what it actually does.

Providing a maven build will make it trivial for anyone with maven installed to build a project, making it easier to adopt clojure project in an organization that uses a lot of java.

Re: A Rails like framework for Clojure.

#23

Post by drcode » Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 3:30 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #2

Although Clojure is an excellent tool, keep in mind it is still in early development. It can be used to publish simple websites pretty elegantly, but for now it is relatively "low level"- I would say it still has a ways to go before being "Rails like."

Oops- Accidentally wrote Clojure instead of Compojure.

Clojure is already pretty mature- Compojure is still the part that's excellent but still low level.

Re: A Rails like framework for Clojure.

#24

Post by jamesbritt » Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 3:49 PM UTC

sunkencity wrote: post #22

jamesbritt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One thing that bugs me with most of the clojure web frameworks that I have looked at is that they a. use ant instead of maven ..." Wouldn't it be better still to use something that is, and uses, Clojure? One thing (among many) that I like about using JRuby is that I can use Ruby for config files and admin tasks. It may be a JVM language but I shouldn't have to use Java tools for routine tasks.

Yes it would be better. The 2 key issues that maven solves for me is depencency management (specify which version of jar you need) and a consistent build enviroment across projects. Maven sucks in a lot of aspects mainly because it's rather opaque compared to ant -- hard to know what it actually does. Providing a maven build will make it trivial for anyone with maven installed to build a project, making it easier to…

"Providing a maven build will make it trivial for anyone with maven installed to build a project, making it easier to adopt clojure project in an organization that uses a lot of java."

No doubt true, but the other side is that folks like me who barely know what Maven is, and would prefer to not do a lot of Java, are put off from trying Clojure (or certain Clojure tools and libs) because it appears too married to Java tools.

Sort of like telling people that to use Rails they first need to use autoconf or something because Ruby is C under the hood.

Re: A Rails like framework for Clojure.

#25

Post by sunkencity » Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 9:23 PM UTC

jamesbritt wrote: post #24

sunkencity wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it would be better. The 2 key issues that maven solves for me is depencency management (specify which version of jar you need) and a consistent build enviroment across projects. Maven sucks in a lot of aspects mainly because it's rather opaque compared to ant -- hard to know what it actually does. Providing a maven build will make it trivial for anyone with maven installed to build a project, making it easier to…

"Providing a maven build will make it trivial for anyone with maven installed to build a project, making it easier to adopt clojure project in an organization that uses a lot of java." No doubt true, but the other side is that folks like me who barely know what Maven is, and would prefer to not do a lot of Java, are put off from trying Clojure (or certain Clojure tools and libs) because it appears too married to Java…

I understand what you mean and I can respect not wanting to dig too deep into java, we are talking about two different things here I think development and deployment. autoconf is great for someone who just wants to install something from source as simple as possible, it is also consistent across projects, making it a nobrainer to install with. I would love to have a simpler environment in clojure, it not even trivial to start the repl.