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Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

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Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#31

Post by blake8086 »

ericb wrote: post #4

I'm curious--in these cryopreservation arrangements, what is done to incentivize future people to resurrect you? Anyone know?

There is a post on the front page right now http://www.gentweb.co.uk/wirerecorder.htm about re-constructing some old wire recordings just to listen to the past. Imagine the opportunity to bring the person themselves back, instead of just audio.

I think if technology advances sufficiently that it is "easy" and "cheap" enough, people will resurrect cryo-preserved patients just because it suits them to do so.

If I had a button I could push that would bring someone who died in 1800 back to life, I would push it.

I believe I'm not the only person who feels this way, either.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#32

Post by maaku »

cousin_it wrote: post #8
ericb wrote: post #4

I'm curious--in these cryopreservation arrangements, what is done to incentivize future people to resurrect you? Anyone know?

Well, you make a contract and pay money to the company that cryopreserves you. They could screw you over after you die, but that would be bad for their reputation and they could be sued.

Not to mention that people working at Alcor are also members and believers in cryonics. They wouldn't screw you over because they wouldn't want anyone screwing them over when it's their time.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#35

Post by throwaway0010 »

jngreenlee wrote: post #14
dublinben wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I think most inquisitive folks and Sci-Fi nerds would pay anything to travel into the future (beyond a single lifetime).

If conciseness is in fact just an internal feeling/feedback loop, the revived you will feel as though this was achieved, but is the benefit to your present mind-state somewhat lost?

Sure, but you can say the same about going to bed at night with the intent of waking up in the morning.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#36

Post by nazgulnarsil »

ericb wrote: post #4

I'm curious--in these cryopreservation arrangements, what is done to incentivize future people to resurrect you? Anyone know?

Once we've defeated death, reviving people who were preserved is the next logical step after saving everyone currently alive. Saving everyone who was not cryopreserved might not be possible, but will also be worth a shot.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#37

Post by zheshishei »

rblatz wrote: post #20
zheshishei wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A legally binding contract might do it. Or, there might be some fund that accrues interest over time to pay for the procedure. If neither of those options exist, then I suppose the first people to be revived would be in the name of science ("Let's do it just to prove that we can.") Then, I suppose anyone who's revived after that would be useful from a anthropological/historical perspective. Imagine having firsthand s…

A contract is only as good as your ability to enforce it. Who will be enforcing it on your behalf?

Of course. One possible source could be a family lawyer or descendants. I could imagine this being a viable method within 100 years, but beyond that, it might not be so reliable.

The first method (contracts) is dependent upon people. The second method (money) is dependent upon your currency remaining relevant as well as finding some way of managing the fund. People and money are both fallible, but I included them for completeness. I personally think that the last two reasons are much more likely if we're talking about hundreds (or thousands) of years. At those intervals though, a more relevant question might be, "who would store and maintain the bodies?"

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#38

Post by jkaljundi »

declan wrote: post #30
NhanH wrote: post #7

On the topic of cryopreservation, to borrow a question from Scott Aaronson [1]: have you signed up for cryopreservation? And regardless of your answer, how do you defend yourself against the charge of irrationality? On one hand, it seems like a different version of Pascal's wager - if you can afford it, the upside is potentially far more beneficial than the downside. On the other hand, well, it is crazy... I can thin…

>if you can afford it, the upside is potentially far more beneficial than the downside I looked into this in some detail a while ago, and I recall Alcor indicated that many of its members opt for life insurance (with Alcor as a beneficiary) to cover the cost of cryopreservation. That's something like $75K to cryopreserve your head, and $150K for whole-body cryospreservation. I suspect the mean age of HN readers skews…

How does the math work for paying let's say 60 years times <$100 and cashing out $150k at the end?

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#39

Post by FiloSottile »

It's fascinating, and personally a bit disturbing, to read about his death as an announcement of cryopreservation ("being cryopreserved now") instead of the sad news it is anyway ("died today"). Also the discussion here revolves around he coming back, not he leaving.

Maybe it impresses me because he seemed so hopeful to be able to choose life in his post back then when he was diagnosed: "I may even still be able to write code, and my dream is to contribute to open source software projects even from within an immobile body. That will be a life very much worth living." http://lesswrong.com/lw/1ab/dying_outside/

I guess one can argue it is a good thing about cryonics, less mourning, more hope. Anyway, I'd like to write down a regular epitaph:

Hal Finney (May 4, 1956 – August 28, 2014), second PGP developer after Zimmerman, first Bitcoin recipient, cypherpunk who wrote code.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#40

Post by thenmar »

reasonattlm wrote: post #16
NhanH wrote: post #7

On the topic of cryopreservation, to borrow a question from Scott Aaronson [1]: have you signed up for cryopreservation? And regardless of your answer, how do you defend yourself against the charge of irrationality? On one hand, it seems like a different version of Pascal's wager - if you can afford it, the upside is potentially far more beneficial than the downside. On the other hand, well, it is crazy... I can thin…

Why crazy? There's good supporting evidence for sufficient preservation of fine neural structure via vitrification. The oldest existing cryopreservation organizations have lasted 40 years since their formation as professional groups. There is no known obstacle in the laws of physics to developing molecular nanotechnology capable of restoring a cryopreserved individual: it's just a technology challenge in organization…

Would you mind sharing some of that evidence? I certainly understand the desire to be cryopreserved, but given the lack of proof of concept (I'd love to be contradicted here!) and how little we know about the brain, it seems like a desperate Hail Mary marketed to wealthy tech folks as sound science.
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