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Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

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141–150 of 180 posts

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#141

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I would never say that I support Russia in any of this, but it's important to put the hypocritical Western pearl-clutching in context:

The near-universal Western condemnation of Putin includes citing the "emotional address" in which he complained bitterly that the U.S. and its allies had "cheated us again and again, made decisions behind our back, presenting us with completed facts with the expansion of NATO in the East, with the deployment of military infrastructure at our borders. They always told us the same thing: 'Well, this doesn't involve you.' "

Putin's complaints are factually accurate. When President Gorbachev accepted the unification of Germany as part of NATO -- an astonishing concession in the light of history -- there was a quid pro quo. Washington agreed that NATO would not move "one inch eastward," referring to East Germany.

The promise was immediately broken, and when Gorbachev complained, he was instructed that it was only a verbal promise, so without force.

President Clinton proceeded to expand NATO much farther to the east, to Russia's borders. Today there are calls to extend NATO even to Ukraine, deep into the historic Russian "neighborhood." But it "doesn't involve" the Russians, because its responsibility to "uphold peace and stability" requires that American red lines are at Russia's borders.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20140501.htm

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#142
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Didn't Ukrainian president Poroshenko say he had hard evidence that the rebels and Russia shot down fligth MH17? Where is it? Are you blind? There's literally tons of evidence. The path of the BUK has been tracked down to meters thanks to satellite imagery. The preliminary report will be released in September confirming what everyone already knows. The Putinbots will surely feign surprise and cry foul yet again. >An…

OMG. > Are you blind? There's literally tons of evidence. Where? No satellite images, no black box recordings, no air traffic control recordings, etc. have been released to the public or to journalists. Please provide a link to evidence that has been reviewed and agreed on by independent bodies involved in the investigation. > The path of the BUK has been tracked down to meters thanks to satellite imagery Where is th…

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.ru/2014/07/launch-location-dete...

Not to mention BOTH Russian media and Russia-backed terrorists has admitted to downing the plane before it was even know it's MH17.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f00_1405864049

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfVpkBKoow

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate a reasoned response. However: 1. Propaganda: in Russia, the media is very tightly controlled by the Kremlin. This is not the case in the US and most Western countries. Russia can use propaganda easily, and it is in their interest. The stories come out of their media are suspiciously different from any other stories from anywhere else. Simplest explanation: they are using propaganda, or at least coloring…

Here's an air-strike on a civilian area, and a probable war crime committed by the Ukrainian government. It's gory, it's sickening. How many reporters from the Free Press covered this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I91... All sides must be held to account for any crimes committed. However, it's hard to have any kind of rational discussion when so many people have a Pavlovian reaction to the…

Why Donbas terrorists use civilians as human shields?

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#144
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG. > Are you blind? There's literally tons of evidence. Where? No satellite images, no black box recordings, no air traffic control recordings, etc. have been released to the public or to journalists. Please provide a link to evidence that has been reviewed and agreed on by independent bodies involved in the investigation. > The path of the BUK has been tracked down to meters thanks to satellite imagery Where is th…

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.ru/2014/07/launch-location-dete... Not to mention BOTH Russian media and Russia-backed terrorists has admitted to downing the plane before it was even know it's MH17. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f00_1405864049 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfVpkBKoow

I'm sorry, all of this material would be thrown out of court. We really need hard evidence that would stand up in a war crimes trial in the Hague. One guy blogging about pictures he found on the internet is not good enough!

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#145
post #81

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

[deleted]

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#146
post #138

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I don't know where to start. Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine. Do you doubt that a second referendum would give a different result? What did the west do in and with Yugoslavia? What about the NATO expansion towards Russia? What would the US do if Russia starts fucking around with Mexico? Read this book and understand the foreign policy of the US and all the conflicts happening near Rus…

> Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine.

You must be awful at Christmas. "I'm glad you enjoyed your present. Give it back now."

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#147
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where to start. Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine. Do you doubt that a second referendum would give a different result? What did the west do in and with Yugoslavia? What about the NATO expansion towards Russia? What would the US do if Russia starts fucking around with Mexico? Read this book and understand the foreign policy of the US and all the conflicts happening near Rus…

> Crimea? Always was Russian. Once given as a "present" to Ukraine. You must be awful at Christmas. "I'm glad you enjoyed your present. Give it back now."

At the risk of Godwin, "Danzig ist Deutsch!"

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. My wife is from Tajikistan, she called her mom and asked about that Malaysian airlines flight that got shot down, and it was like they were speaking two different languages. She goes 'did you hear about that plane that Russia shot down' and her mom says 'oh you mean the one that Ukraine shot down because they thought it looked like Putin's plane?' we were quite confused about what she said until we watch…

Did you know that the United States navy shot down an Iranian commercial airliner in 1988? How do you think that was reported in western media compared to how MH17 was reported?

Compared to how MH17 was reported in Russian media? I think the Iranian incident was pretty admirably covered by that standard.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#149

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I would never say that I support Russia in any of this, but it's important to put the hypocritical Western pearl-clutching in context: The near-universal Western condemnation of Putin includes citing the "emotional address" in which he complained bitterly that the U.S. and its allies had "cheated us again and again, made decisions behind our back, presenting us with completed facts with the expansion of NATO in the E…

Gee, I wonder why Poland and Lithuania might have wanted to join NATO in the first place. It's almost as if they didn't trust Russia! How dare they. Russia would never invade a neighboring country.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#150
post #20

As evidenced by the flame wars breaking out, this is 'current events' and thus off-topic for this site: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That it's "using tech to cover them" is a fig-leaf, at best.

Nothing in that link says "current events" are off-topic. Given that this is Hacker News and that the definition of news is information about current events, I'm not sure what you're on about.

Let's see: "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
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