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Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

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Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#51
post #32
post #12

Worked for Palantir from 2010-2012. Palantir will push you hard (if you let it, and are interested in doing so); it's the highest-performing team I've ever worked with, and I learned a ton both technically and culturally (how to interview, how to hire, how to productively have high expectations of your colleagues) that has served me well in the other roles -- even though it wasn't immediately obvious what I was learn…

Would you elaborate on the "how to" aspects of the cultural part?

There are certain cultural imperatives; catchphrases that get repeated. Like Facebook's "move fast and break things." That's an interesting statement in and of itself, but what's more interesting is watching how people interpret that imperative and get things done.

Don't want to go into too many examples, but let's take the "we maintain an incredibly high hiring bar, because good people want to work with good people." Everyone says that; how do you actually execute on that in practice? What interview practices work? One well-known public thing you can see from reading Glassdoor interviews is that the founders try to interview every candidate. One of the most memorable things about my time there is that even the guy who was hired to stock the kitchen went through an intense interview process; which seems like overkill until you meet him and realize the depth of pride, customer service and creativity he brings to his job is every bit as strong as the engineers we hire. Not everyone who says "we maintain a high hiring bar" would go through that kind of effort.

(P.S. re: the above "lifelong friends" comment as well - that guy, who I am still friends with, continues to post photos of particularly well-executed Palantir meals to private social media. So while I respect the feeling that 'it sounds like the military' -- like the military, I'd say it's hard work in the short term, occasionally nonsensical, but for people who are willing to do it it's very much a long-term positive experience.)

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#52

I saw this in my RSS feed. Without seeing the text, I actually thought this post was going to be a question of which company was more evil. Downvotes welcomed, but I stand by my point.

Is there a large company that a significant number of folks on HN don't think is evil? Amazon, maybe?

Mozilla?

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#53
post #35
post #21

i'm stunned by the fact that people here seem to think that working for a national security agency seems to be the worst thing to do moraly. i remember a time when being a spy was probably the coolest thing ever. one could argue that "spying" on people for the sake of saving lives is a much more noble cause than doing it purely for commercial purposes. ps : i am not naive,and i am aware of the recent privacy issues r…

Being a spy was "the coolest thing ever" in TV series and Bond movies where the bad/good guys are easily spotted (they even make grimaces), the spy gets all the flashy cars, pretty girls and never dies... Try talking to a real spy, see how "cool" their life's are, watching their back constantly, being sent to slaughter at any time, etc. doesn't look like a good bargain to me.

Just like working in a startup today barely looks like anything that's displayed on TV or movies.

I was talking about the fantasmatic images surrounding the field.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#54
post #31

Palantir: - Boring work since you will be an FDE if in NY (data munging, plugins, etc - no "real" coding projects) - Below-market pay (including equity due to future dilution) - Culture of working 80-100 hour weeks - Corporate cult mentality (everyone constantly wearing the company clothing, living at the office, etc) - Reputation for having a "bro culture" Facebook: - Higher cash comp, probably less equity upside -…

What is a "bro culture"?

"Bro culture" is created when nerdy programming skills, macho personalities and frathouse-like behavior are fueled by drugs, booze and sex.

For more details, read this article: http://mashable.com/2014/07/29/startup-sexism/

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#55
post #21

i'm stunned by the fact that people here seem to think that working for a national security agency seems to be the worst thing to do moraly. i remember a time when being a spy was probably the coolest thing ever. one could argue that "spying" on people for the sake of saving lives is a much more noble cause than doing it purely for commercial purposes. ps : i am not naive,and i am aware of the recent privacy issues r…

I'm guessing that you are over 30. People who are young professionals now do not remember the Cold War at all, and have grown up considering the U.S. to be essentially invulnerable on the international stage. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 were the worst thing they've experienced. But while those were terrible, they were clearly not an existential threat to the entire country, the way that the Soviet Union was for 50…

Yeap, although i'm just 35 (which makes me old enough to remember world maps showing "USSR" in school). But i suppose being a european makes it a bit different. We've been hit by terrorism a lot more frequently, and are involved in wars much closer to us than the US. Although to be fair a lot of european would have the same point of view as the typical HN user.

Which reminds me of a recent trip i did to Israel. At the airport, some guy complained that people were searching his bag. Saying "why are they doing this, come on...". He seemed pissed. As for me, well I was extremely glad those people searched every single bags coming in the plane.

But you're right, that was exactly my point.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#56

Palantir: - Boring work since you will be an FDE if in NY (data munging, plugins, etc - no "real" coding projects) - Below-market pay (including equity due to future dilution) - Culture of working 80-100 hour weeks - Corporate cult mentality (everyone constantly wearing the company clothing, living at the office, etc) - Reputation for having a "bro culture" Facebook: - Higher cash comp, probably less equity upside -…

The New York Times profiled Palantir a couple of months ago. The article has interviews with the founder of Palantir. It also has photos of the office.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/business/unlocking-secrets...

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one could argue that "spying" on people for the sake of saving lives is a much more noble cause than doing it purely for commercial purposes. I guess that's why people don't buy it. The surveillance state is not for 'saving lives'.

Exactly. Although you can never (for fairly obvious reasons) see a full cost-benefit analysis of these things, the sheer volume of cash, resources and legislative power being shovelled towards the Surveillance-Industrial Complex (it's actually a thing) is astonishing, and it's not about dealing with those edge cases; it's mainly about the expansion of 'oh, that's useful, maybe we should let another agency lower down…

Come on...

Has anyone in the US been arrested for political views after being wired or spied on the internet ?? Ever ?

I'm sorry to be blunt, but all the americans that think they're living under a surveillance state should truly get their ass in any non-western country in the world before claiming such BS.

People here are so spoiled it makes me sick sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#58
post #51
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you elaborate on the "how to" aspects of the cultural part?

There are certain cultural imperatives; catchphrases that get repeated. Like Facebook's "move fast and break things." That's an interesting statement in and of itself, but what's more interesting is watching how people interpret that imperative and get things done. Don't want to go into too many examples, but let's take the "we maintain an incredibly high hiring bar, because good people want to work with good people.…

Thanks. So it's a mix of self-discipline, holding oneself to high standards, going the extra mile. And--I assume--trusting that others do the same.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Although you can never (for fairly obvious reasons) see a full cost-benefit analysis of these things, the sheer volume of cash, resources and legislative power being shovelled towards the Surveillance-Industrial Complex (it's actually a thing) is astonishing, and it's not about dealing with those edge cases; it's mainly about the expansion of 'oh, that's useful, maybe we should let another agency lower down…

Come on... Has anyone in the US been arrested for political views after being wired or spied on the internet ?? Ever ? I'm sorry to be blunt, but all the americans that think they're living under a surveillance state should truly get their ass in any non-western country in the world before claiming such BS. People here are so spoiled it makes me sick sometimes.

Just because some countries have it more wrong doesn't mean criticisms of US policy are invalid, it's really a silly argument.

Re: Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook?

#60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Although you can never (for fairly obvious reasons) see a full cost-benefit analysis of these things, the sheer volume of cash, resources and legislative power being shovelled towards the Surveillance-Industrial Complex (it's actually a thing) is astonishing, and it's not about dealing with those edge cases; it's mainly about the expansion of 'oh, that's useful, maybe we should let another agency lower down…

Come on... Has anyone in the US been arrested for political views after being wired or spied on the internet ?? Ever ? I'm sorry to be blunt, but all the americans that think they're living under a surveillance state should truly get their ass in any non-western country in the world before claiming such BS. People here are so spoiled it makes me sick sometimes.

Firstly, this argument isn't just limited to the US. But what the US does has repercussions for the rest of the world, particularly the UK.

So on that, have people been arrested (and otherwise harassed) for political views in the UK? Yes. There were around 150 known activists tracked and arrested before the Royal Wedding here because they might 'cause a scene'. An incredibly trivial example that highlights perfectly well the type of problem that you have when you create a society with multiple, overlapping and unaccountable layers of surveillance.

There are a number of other examples (Occupy London, UK Uncut, some animal rights groups, anti-fracking groups) where people have been 'pre-emptively' arrested and detained, only for the charges to be dropped months later after restrictive bail conditions were imposed, off the back of surveillance enabled by technology - fake cell tower SIM gathering, facebook monitoring (It's not just limited to 'the internet').

Protest and activism (i.e. 'political views') exist on a spectrum, and the line where that crosses into illegal activity is far further than the police would have you believe, but that does not, and has not, stopped them using those same laws (and tools, and technology) to enforce political (small 'p', and not necessarily governmentally inspired) views of 'proper' behaviour. There are dozens of examples of similar behaviour in the US for the last 30 years. Some are 'on the internet', others are not. Gary Marx's work is a great place to start for those examples. http://web.mit.edu/gtmarx/www/garyhome.html

Tl;dr - yes.

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