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Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

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Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#101

Post by mxh »

tx wrote: post #59
cstejerean wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The startup where I work was started by business types but we're using Python. Although I have to admit that at times it is hard to find experienced Python developers (so we gave up on the Python part and started looking for experienced developers period. Turns out Python is pretty easy to learn). My biggest problem with ASP.NET (and the reason I would pick Java over it if I had to use one of the two) is that it only…

Depends on how you look at it. Windows Server 2003 is not a bad server OS and properly written and deployed ASP.NET application will be able to handle TONS of requests. Two reasons: native code execution (.NET caches compiled code in memory) and very efficient threading. This thought may be unpopular but it does not make it less true. However, as a struggling one-two person startup, you probably will not want to pay…

... but, aside from the higher tool cost, slower development time, and more expensive hosting, it's great?

I don't think performance is really a reason to pick the MSFT stack; MySpace does use it, proving that it can scale, but there are many more cases of web-scale systems built on open-source tech. So that's, at best, a push.

It is easier to find warm bodies for a MSFT shop than, say, a Python shop. But, as a startup, are you looking for 5 great guys, or 50 mediocre ones? And do you really think it's easier to find 5 great MSFT guys than 5 great Python (or Ruby, or Java, or even LISP/Haskell/Erlang) guys?

The last point seems debatable to me, the others, less so.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#102

Post by jsnx »

brlewis wrote: post #54
dbrush wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to someone that has beaten the libraries of the "Dark Side"? I'd like to check them out.

Java libraries, CPAN, and the Unix/C universe of libraries are three examples. But you should only check them out if there's a library that does the specific thing you want.

Yeah, I really have to second this one. It's not just the UNIX/C universe, though -- it's the UNIX scripting universe. As a particular example, how do you tie your graphing software to your analysis software to your screen scraping software? You could try writing them all in Python -- or you could just use pipes and tie together GNU plot and wget with some custom filters in Python. It takes a few years to get confident with this stuff; but once you are, you will never write so little code :)

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#103

Post by jsnx »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #98

I have been looking around for partners for the last few months and ran across something very interesting. Three guys, on three different occasions, said they wanted to go linux or nothing. Note that all of these conversations had nothing to do with the question of whether the business was viable or whether it could turn a profit. On a couple of occasions, we had some really good chemistry and the plan was looking ho…

I am definitely in sympathy with your three guys. Were they really convinced that "...any business idea that ran on .NET was a bad one." or just that it was Hell to work with .NET?

> It doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint.

It's really about quality of life. I tried using Windows for a spell, for XBox development -- I ended up running Linux under Moka5 for a userland, and then switching into Windows once in awhile to kick the XBox. Until I got that in place, I was miserable.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#104

Post by icky »

jdavid wrote: post #68
Goladus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#"); System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java"); Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment.…

Java can not manage memory marshaling between win32 apps and managed code. In Java, you need to message pass with pipes, and its a pain. In Linux Piping is really fast, but in Windows, Piping is slow. I really like being able to code C++ and C# in the same solution, but in different projects, while being able to step through all layers of the code. Remote Debuging, and RPC calls are way better in .NET Also if you are…

> In Java, you need to message pass with pipes, and its a pain.

What, no sockets?

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#105

Post by icky »

jdavid wrote: post #66
axod wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

Java and .NET are both OO functional languages that execute code in JIT compilers, but there are many differences. .NET has stronger patterns throughout the system, you basically learn one set of patterns and it works on everything. most developers support all of the patterns. .NET has superior thread and memory management. in most tests i have seen, .NET code runs faster with less memory bulk and with better memory…

> Java and .NET are both OO functional languages

You keep saying that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#107

Post by hello_moto »

mxh wrote: post #100
sadiq wrote: post #63

The biggest issue (and the reason i'm not using it) is vendor lock-in. If the next version of Windows Server requires something crazy or has a massive price hike, you either accept it or have to port your entire system. With Java, I don't have that problem. I can pick and choose the best platforms and technologies for the job. With ASP.NET you're pretty much stuck with the Microsoft ecosystem.

I agree with this sentiment, and would add a few (somewhat) related reasons. a.) 'Planet Microsoft'. By this, I mean the gravitational pull all MSFT products seem to exert on one another, apparently by design and decree of the marketing department. With open-source stuff, it seems like I can mix-n-match components pretty freely. I can use Django on BSD, or Linux. With MySQL, or PostgreSQL. I can use its built-in temp…

What makes upgrade better in other technology world compare to MS? Last time I checked, other technologies are rarely backward compatible, cut support for previous version not too long after new release is out, tons of controversies on newer releases.

One choice is not to upgrade at all. No big deal I assume. It's not like you're going to write a lot more of new code.

What makes you think open standards are better? just because they're open thus they're better? how about the technology value behind it?

'One Microsoft Way' isn't overly bad. At least it doesn't waste your time trying to decide which one is better (Rails vs PHP vs Django vs TurboGears vs Pylons vs Symfony vs JSF).

You know what, these are the example of wasting your time:

Servlet (need template)-> JSP/Servlet (not good enough) -> Struts (some design mistakes) -> Spring (mkay.. well) -> JSF (oh, we finally catch ASP.NET up)

PHP -> PEAR -> Symfony/CakePHP/Ignition

I wouldn't say Python stack is "wasting your time" yet but time will tell how long Django/TurboGears/Pylons will last. They're cool frameworks and I like Python more than C#. But I haven't really heard much from their communities lately other than the Django book had finally been released after deadline slips (I know they have good reasons but whatever).

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#108

Post by plinkplonk »

jdavid wrote: post #66
axod wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

Java and .NET are both OO functional languages that execute code in JIT compilers, but there are many differences. .NET has stronger patterns throughout the system, you basically learn one set of patterns and it works on everything. most developers support all of the patterns. .NET has superior thread and memory management. in most tests i have seen, .NET code runs faster with less memory bulk and with better memory…

"Visual Studio Team Edition, better supports 100,000 lines of code or more in revision control than any other platform, while remaining agile. "

What does this sentence mean exactly? I tried parsing it a few different ways and can't make out what is being said.

 i've worked on a few million line java programs using eclipse and Intellij and had no problems being "agile".

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#109

Post by tpatke »

Using it.

Name a company other then MSFT which spend BILLIONS every year building a development platform.

How can anyone suggest that after 20 years of billion dollar investments including contributions from the top minds in computer science - that Ruby is the better PLATFORM?

It is not about the language, it is about the platform.

btw: I have full java certification and work full time as a java developer. Java sucks.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#110

Post by bigtoga »

theyoungceo wrote: post #92

I built my entire startup on .NET because I think the feature set is richer, Visual Studio is a great tool, and speed of development is faster. I've done extensive work in PHP and Java in the past and both were much harder to work with IMHO. I also have backend applicatiosn and mobile devices that run versions of the framework, so the entire solution lent itself very well to .NET. I happily paid windows server and SQ…

Ditto. As a startup, MSFT makes it insanely cheap and easy to get started - for $300 you can buy their "Action Pack" which includes Windows Server, SQL, Exchange, Office, etc licenses for up to 10 people. When you get ready to take the next step, it is $1400 per year for the MS Partner/MSDN package which adds full Visual Studio, etc.
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