Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
theguardian.com
Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
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Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#2I don't think saying China didn't see and learn from the failing aspects of American city planning is fair or useful, especially when it comes to road planning. The Chinese and American culture on road use is completely different: (power/gas) scooters and (regular) bikes are extremely popular in Beijing, and Chinese drivers are generally much more aggressive. Because of this, most road users, including bikers, are capable of driving defensively against other road users. Most bikers/scooter-ers are already comfortable with weaving between cars on their commute. Would a segregated lane make commuting on smaller vehicles safer? Undoubtedly. Would it be necessary to incentivize biking over driving larger vehicles? Probably not.
This, along with other problems, like an exponentially expanding middle class population that can suddenly afford vehicles, is only one of the many different challenges most western governments have not experienced, which China currently faces. It may be unfair to quickly jump to conclusions and simply say the Chinese have not learned from the history of urban planning by western countries, when there are very few references from which the Chinese government can draw on, for the unique problems that they are facing.
TL;DR: Chinese urban centers have problems that cities in Western countries have not faced.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#3I think what this signals is not that there is something particularly backwards about China.
Chinese suburban sprawl shows that no matter the style of governance or how markets deal with housing, it seems like people converge on the same poor urban planning practices.
Or, you could interpret the similar mistakes as proof that real estate in America is dealt with in a way that's far from free. Texas, the heart of the mainstream right, is where much of the sprawl is. In the greatest irony, the strongly-left economist Paul Krugman is saying Texas has economically positive liberal housing laws.[1]
Does the liberalization of housing law lead to sprawl? How could a place with top down bureaucracy like China produce the same outcome as right Texas with left-approved policy?
It's all a big mess. Nobody has figured out modern living in an efficient way, I think. I don't think Paul Krugman, Rick Perry, San Francisco housing reform activists, San Francisco status-quo activists, AirBnb, etc. have the answers.
The natural experiment in China shows radically different laws and market practices still lead to problems. No one has figured out an optimal idea for land ownership and housing.
[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/opinion/paul-krugman-wrong...
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#4I think what this signals is not that there is something particularly backwards about China. Chinese suburban sprawl shows that no matter the style of governance or how markets deal with housing, it seems like people converge on the same poor urban planning practices. Or, you could interpret the similar mistakes as proof that real estate in America is dealt with in a way that's far from free. Texas, the heart of the…
I agree, and I would argue that this type of development is more economic. People want cars because they will take you everywhere. Why are the futurists arguing for an outmoded dense city life, just so they can stare at their iPhones on the bus? Just look at the price of land or housing in dense areas and how they inevitably become centers for the wealthy.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#5I think what this signals is not that there is something particularly backwards about China. Chinese suburban sprawl shows that no matter the style of governance or how markets deal with housing, it seems like people converge on the same poor urban planning practices. Or, you could interpret the similar mistakes as proof that real estate in America is dealt with in a way that's far from free. Texas, the heart of the…
>How could a place with top down bureaucracy like China produce the same outcome as right Texas with left-approved policy?
Because they're both the product of private developers working on isolated blocks of land. Their concern is fast ROI, which doesn't coincide with what's good for quality of life or the long term.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#6I've heard about failed city planning a lot, and I wonder is there a good example somewhere? like a booming city with more than 5 million population that have "good" city plan? which city is best in this regard?
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#7The short, glib answer is "The same reason teenagers don't learn from their elders' mistakes".
The longer answer is a combination of:
- poor people want what rich people have. And if they can't afford the substance (private country estate), they'll still get the style (McMansion). They particularly want last generation's rich people's things, as this generation's rich people's things are have not gained widespread popularity.
- suburban sprawl has low up-front costs with real costs coming in decades later, as North American suburbs are starting to experience today
- suburbs offer a very seductive lifestyle proposition - the space and privacy of the country and the convenience of city life. In my experience they fail to deliver, offering the traffic and neighbours of the city, without the convenience of dense, walkable neighbourhoods, proximity to downtown and quick transit.
- more privacy and space are quite nice.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#8I think what this signals is not that there is something particularly backwards about China. Chinese suburban sprawl shows that no matter the style of governance or how markets deal with housing, it seems like people converge on the same poor urban planning practices. Or, you could interpret the similar mistakes as proof that real estate in America is dealt with in a way that's far from free. Texas, the heart of the…
> Chinese suburban sprawl shows that no matter the style of governance or how markets deal with housing, it seems like people converge on the same poor urban planning practices.
If China and America follow this route, that's only 2 examples, not a universal trend. In Europe the cities are much more walkable.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#9I've heard about failed city planning a lot, and I wonder is there a good example somewhere? like a booming city with more than 5 million population that have "good" city plan? which city is best in this regard?
> I've heard about failed city planning a lot, and I wonder is there a good example somewhere?
Cities with functional public transport and walkable neighborhoods: Tokyo, Seoul, London, New York City, Paris, Berlin.
Maybe also Madrid and Singapore, but I don't know much about them. Edit: Maybe Osaka and Nagoya, too (I don't know much about them either).
All these have over 5 million population.
Re: Why haven't China's cities learned from America's mistakes?
#10The short, glib answer is "The same reason teenagers don't learn from their elders' mistakes". The longer answer is a combination of: - poor people want what rich people have. And if they can't afford the substance (private country estate), they'll still get the style (McMansion). They particularly want last generation's rich people's things, as this generation's rich people's things are have not gained widespread po…
>- suburban sprawl has low up-front costs with real costs coming in decades later, as North American suburbs are starting to experience today
Would you mind elaborating more on this? More specifically about the cost the North American suburbs are starting to experience.
thanks