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Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

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Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#11

Post by fidotron »

pudo wrote: post #6

I think one basic problem with Firefox OS being a "developer-first" thing is the devices it's being shipped on. Of course, a $33 phone is a very cool thing to be able to do. But as a developer, a lot of my disposable income is going to be directed towards gadgets and a $33 phone is just a decade behind the types of phones I would actually use myself. I think that to attract developers, Mozilla should aim to find a pa…

There's a good reason they aren't targeting the high end: they can't.

A significant proportion of the weight behind non-web based UI comes from the need to efficiently leverage the GPU. You can almost get away without this on low res screens, but at 720p and beyond you need it as the sheer number of pixels starts to kill you.

Google have thrown massive amounts of effort into making Chrome look like it's almost there, but the reality is the layout model doesn't map to well performing GPU primitives nearly as well as, say, Cocoa. Mozilla haven't been able to get even a fraction of a distance down this path.

For this reason they'd have been better off chasing something like e-readers, since there the update speed isn't a big deal. But don't let anything like reason, logic or technical competence get in the way of Mozilla's decision making.

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#12

Post by icebraining »

fidotron wrote: post #11
pudo wrote: post #6

I think one basic problem with Firefox OS being a "developer-first" thing is the devices it's being shipped on. Of course, a $33 phone is a very cool thing to be able to do. But as a developer, a lot of my disposable income is going to be directed towards gadgets and a $33 phone is just a decade behind the types of phones I would actually use myself. I think that to attract developers, Mozilla should aim to find a pa…

There's a good reason they aren't targeting the high end: they can't. A significant proportion of the weight behind non-web based UI comes from the need to efficiently leverage the GPU. You can almost get away without this on low res screens, but at 720p and beyond you need it as the sheer number of pixels starts to kill you. Google have thrown massive amounts of effort into making Chrome look like it's almost there,…

Your argument goes against my experience with Firefox for Android on my higher-than-720p Nexus 7. If it's slower than Chrome, I can barely notice; it's definitively not "a fraction of a distance down the path".

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#13

Post by ewzimm »

wesleyy wrote: post #4

I wonder if firefox purposely chose to adopt a developer-first strategy with its mobile OS, similar to Stripe. I know that this strategy works, at least somewhat, on me, as I recently needed a payment processor for a hackathon and, knowing nothing about payment processors and after some quick googling for the most developer friendly payment API, I went with Stripe. Though, it's probably going to be a lot tougher for…

Mozilla isn't operating far outside the ecosystem though. By releasing an Android-based OS with programs that run on web standards, it's pretty easy to add compatibility for most popular things that people do on their phones.

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#14

Post by appenin »

pudo wrote: post #6

I think one basic problem with Firefox OS being a "developer-first" thing is the devices it's being shipped on. Of course, a $33 phone is a very cool thing to be able to do. But as a developer, a lot of my disposable income is going to be directed towards gadgets and a $33 phone is just a decade behind the types of phones I would actually use myself. I think that to attract developers, Mozilla should aim to find a pa…

Not all developers live in the first world :)

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#15

Post by soapdog »

icebraining wrote: post #12
fidotron wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a good reason they aren't targeting the high end: they can't. A significant proportion of the weight behind non-web based UI comes from the need to efficiently leverage the GPU. You can almost get away without this on low res screens, but at 720p and beyond you need it as the sheer number of pixels starts to kill you. Google have thrown massive amounts of effort into making Chrome look like it's almost there,…

Your argument goes against my experience with Firefox for Android on my higher-than-720p Nexus 7. If it's slower than Chrome, I can barely notice; it's definitively not "a fraction of a distance down the path".

If you're enjoying Firefox for Android can I persuade you to try Firefox Aurora for Android. Even though I am using Nightly on my Android, I don't recommend going with the emotions of a nightly build. I am asking you to try Aurora because its a bit ahead of the normal release and IMHO performs even better. :-)

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#16

Post by Someone1234 »

DanBC wrote: post #7
pudo wrote: post #6

I think one basic problem with Firefox OS being a "developer-first" thing is the devices it's being shipped on. Of course, a $33 phone is a very cool thing to be able to do. But as a developer, a lot of my disposable income is going to be directed towards gadgets and a $33 phone is just a decade behind the types of phones I would actually use myself. I think that to attract developers, Mozilla should aim to find a pa…

But then those developers will develop for that new phone, creating a bunch of stuff that will not run on the older phones. Since those older phones are Mozilla's target market it would be an odd choice to make. It's a little bit like the WWW where people (rightly) develop on very powerful hardware but often (wrongly) fail to test on a range of normal hardware. (This is also ignoring the fact that stuff written for t…

To your last point: It is extremely hard to test your HTML/etc sites on a range of hardware unless you happen to work for someone with deep pockets and a dedication to broad support (e.g. Google).

Is there a cost effective way to do so? Other than just getting a RaspberryPi and seeing if that can render it?

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#17

Post by Someone1234 »

DanBC wrote: post #7
pudo wrote: post #6

I think one basic problem with Firefox OS being a "developer-first" thing is the devices it's being shipped on. Of course, a $33 phone is a very cool thing to be able to do. But as a developer, a lot of my disposable income is going to be directed towards gadgets and a $33 phone is just a decade behind the types of phones I would actually use myself. I think that to attract developers, Mozilla should aim to find a pa…

But then those developers will develop for that new phone, creating a bunch of stuff that will not run on the older phones. Since those older phones are Mozilla's target market it would be an odd choice to make. It's a little bit like the WWW where people (rightly) develop on very powerful hardware but often (wrongly) fail to test on a range of normal hardware. (This is also ignoring the fact that stuff written for t…

To your last point: It is extremely hard to test your HTML/etc sites on a range of hardware unless you happen to work for someone with deep pockets and a dedication to broad support (e.g. Google).

Is there a cost effective way to do so? Other than just getting a RaspberryPi and seeing if that can render it?

Re: Firefox OS is a developer's best friend

#18

Post by icebraining »

soapdog wrote: post #15
icebraining wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument goes against my experience with Firefox for Android on my higher-than-720p Nexus 7. If it's slower than Chrome, I can barely notice; it's definitively not "a fraction of a distance down the path".

If you're enjoying Firefox for Android can I persuade you to try Firefox Aurora for Android. Even though I am using Nightly on my Android, I don't recommend going with the emotions of a nightly build. I am asking you to try Aurora because its a bit ahead of the normal release and IMHO performs even better. :-)

I will, thanks.
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