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This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

theatlantic.com

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Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#81

Post by Xcelerate »

DarqWebster wrote: post #72
Xcelerate wrote: post #71

"... he then married, had four children [...] that a polyamorous lifestyle was, in fact, for him [...] "I really wanted to have sex with other people" [...] now a divorced professor" How convenient for him. I'm supposed to take life lessons from some guy that put his own selfish needs above his wife's and children's just because he got bored of having sex with one person? That's sickening.

Hang on, as much as I disagree with the man, this is not why. The man realised, during the course of his relationship, that he was unhappy with his life. So he made a change that made him happier. At the same time he deposits the bulk of his paycheck into his wife's account and considers it his ethical duty to see his kids three to four times a week. All things considered, the man made the change in a rather respecta…

> The alternative is to remain in the relationship, discontent, for the rest of his life. Is that what is expected of people?

Yes, absolutely. I would expect no less of myself.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#82

Post by panzi »

munin wrote: post #70
panzi wrote: post #63

I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program. And fundamentalists of any religion would like to know who exactly is breaking which one of their arbitrary rules and where they live, when their kids go to school etc. Pedophile offenders would like to know when which child is home alone etc. Privacy has a purpose, damn it! These are extreme cases, but they still are about the privacy of people…

> I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program. if there was truly no privacy, then the Mafia would cease to exist. think this through.

The mafia wouldn't care about laws. So the mafia would keep secrets but law abiding citizens wouldn't. So there is a fundamental asymmetry.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#83

Post by panzi »

collyw wrote: post #80
panzi wrote: post #63

I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program. And fundamentalists of any religion would like to know who exactly is breaking which one of their arbitrary rules and where they live, when their kids go to school etc. Pedophile offenders would like to know when which child is home alone etc. Privacy has a purpose, damn it! These are extreme cases, but they still are about the privacy of people…

Good to see the pedophile argument in here on HN. I thought this was a bit more intelligent than the Daily Mail. Assuming that pedophile offenders didn't have any privacy either, would your problem still exist?

The one time when this argument actually works and I use it I'm accused of being as intelligent as the Daily Mail! A criminal only has to investigate one arbitrary innocent. But the innocent (or the police) would have to sieve through the data of all other people. And someone only becomes an offender when it's to late. There is no guarantee that he/she could be recognized as a potential thread in advance. Therefore certain information should be only provided to people you have reason to trust.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#84

Post by innguest »

gridspy wrote: post #77
prawn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really "take up atheism" or do you just not go to church, etc? I don't feel like I've taken it up, it's just not something I worry about or act on. Rest of your point stands, obviously.

If you simply don't believe in god, you're agnostic. If you actively believe that there is no god, you're atheist.

Please stop spreading this myth. Agnosticism is about whether you think it's provable that there is or isn't a god. Atheism is about whether you as a person believe in a god or not.

You can believe in a god (be a theist) and still think it's not provable that there is one (be an agnostic).

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#85

Post by Thimothy »

collyw wrote: post #78
gridspy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you simply don't believe in god, you're agnostic. If you actively believe that there is no god, you're atheist.

Actively believing there is no god, without proof of his/her/it's non existence is as evidence based as religion.

Not arguing if this statement is right or wrong, but I think you should know that your phrase is highly controversial and the beginning of thousands flame wars through the internet. Maybe you should avoid it unless it is completely relevant to the topic at hand.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#86

Post by blueskin_ »

adwf wrote: post #48
tolmasky wrote: post #21

> "And having been transparent with his coreligionists about his loss of faith and with his ex-wife about his lost willingness to be monogamous, he gradually came to this life philosophy: Society would be better if no one had any secrets." Spoken like someone blessed to have been born a white heterosexual male in 21st century America. I wonder if he'd feel the same way if he was a homosexual in an incredibly homophob…

I'm reminded of an example of this - read the Lethal Car Decorating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear:_US_Special If you can't get hold of the episode, they essentially paint pro-homosexuality slogans on the side of their vehicles and drive through an Alabama town. It's scary to think that even in this day and age there are people who will react in such a fashion. And if you think this is bad, driving through t…

Not just gay; anything designed to annoy rednecks.

The ones that I remember:

* I'm Bi

* Man Love Rules OK

* Hilary For President

* NASCAR Sucks

* Country and Western Is Rubbish

Also, yes, they actually did have to stop and remove the slogans, which was not faked (not the lack of actual camera use, just a phone video).

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#87

Post by blueskin_ »

thieving_magpie wrote: post #54
adwf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of an example of this - read the Lethal Car Decorating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear:_US_Special If you can't get hold of the episode, they essentially paint pro-homosexuality slogans on the side of their vehicles and drive through an Alabama town. It's scary to think that even in this day and age there are people who will react in such a fashion. And if you think this is bad, driving through t…

That episode, entirely, is fake. The rednecks throwing things, all of it. I'm not trying to be rude or spoil your Weltanschauung or something.

No, it's not.

Stop trying to feel smug because you just one-upped all those people without any proof (or accuracy) whatsoever; it just makes you look stupid.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#88

Post by nitrogen »

collyw wrote: post #78
gridspy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you simply don't believe in god, you're agnostic. If you actively believe that there is no god, you're atheist.

Actively believing there is no god, without proof of his/her/it's non existence is as evidence based as religion.

Not believing in Santa Claus, Zeus, Imhotep, Peter Pan, or The Green Lantern without proof of their non-existence is etc. etc.?

The burden of proof lies with the claim of existence. In the absence of any evidence, nonexistence is the default assumption. Yet disbelief in all of these things is based on evidence, since we have looked in the places people used to believe they lived and/or domains they were believed to control, andand they weren't there.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#89

Post by mmalone »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #50
mmalone wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... I don't get it? Why is privacy required where there is no trust? I see how the two are related but I see it kind of differently... it's hard not to trust someone when you know they're not hiding anything. In a totally utopian sense I believe that privacy is bad. Practically it's probably impossible to implement society without privacy. I wouldn't share my email password because we're not living in a utopia and…

So what amazing sort of philosophical argument are you using to arrive at the value judgment that "privacy is bad?" I don't think it is good enough to just have this tacit idea "no privacy is inherently good but obviously we don't live in a Utopia;" I think that is a flawed concept entirely. In fact, I think your position is entirely immoral. You want to find some kind of technology to force me to give up my privacy…

The argument is that privacy serves no purpose aside from facilitating lies, and lies are bad. One challenge that has been presented is that there's a difference between "lying" and "not telling the whole truth" but I believe both are "moral bads" and I don't really want to get into that regardless (the distinction between passive and active moral decisions has been debated endlessly by philosophers already -- google "killing vs. letting die," for instance).

I don't think it's infeasible to find a technology. I think it's infeasible to change our culture to be more accepting of the sorts of things that people choose to keep private. As long as people are persecuted for their completely normal beliefs and actions privacy has a place and keeping things private is justifiable. But if I were designing a utopia I think I'd try one with no privacy at all (everyone has access to the same set of facts about everyone / everything else) and see how things go.

Why do you think my position is immoral? How is it a flawed concept? You haven't presented a logical argument for your position -- that privacy is good. I'd love to hear one that doesn't include a clause where "some bad actor does something immoral because of lack of privacy."

Maybe P = NP, then we won't have a choice :)

Edit: spelling.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#90

Post by mmalone »

nitrogen wrote: post #88
collyw wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actively believing there is no god, without proof of his/her/it's non existence is as evidence based as religion.

Not believing in Santa Claus, Zeus, Imhotep, Peter Pan, or The Green Lantern without proof of their non-existence is etc. etc.? The burden of proof lies with the claim of existence. In the absence of any evidence, nonexistence is the default assumption. Yet disbelief in all of these things is based on evidence, since we have looked in the places people used to believe they lived and/or domains they were believed to c…

How are you defining God? Have we looked for God in all of the places that people believe God lives / controls?

The universe either came from somewhere or has always existed... If I define God as a "the thing that created the universe" how would you prove or disprove God's existence?

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