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This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

theatlantic.com

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Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#61

Post by prawn »

notahacker wrote: post #5
TheBiv wrote: post #3

> "He is now a divorced professor at a technical college with no credit cards and extremely uninteresting finances, largely because the bulk of his paychecks are directly deposited, per his preference, in the account of his ex-wife." That just about sums up how he is able to be so flippant with his privacy, even if he has nothing to hide!

The other reason he can be so flippant is that he's an ex-Mormon who walked out on his family and church because he'd taken up sleeping around and atheism, so from his point of view the worst damage to his social standing has already been inflicted.

Do you really "take up atheism" or do you just not go to church, etc? I don't feel like I've taken it up, it's just not something I worry about or act on.

Rest of your point stands, obviously.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#62

Post by Double_Cast »

> All the world's a stage,

> And all the men and women merely players.

I think one benefit of privacy is the ability to maintain multiple identities. Not just "secret" identities, but also the ability to play different roles depending on the context. I'm not sure how to explain it exactly, but I feel like a loss of privacy would bestow upon me a pretty heavy cognitive burden. Even if my behavior isn't embarrassing or self-sabotaging, I have better things to do than justify my every waking moment and tailor a consistent & comprehensive identity. It would be the equivalent of spaghetti code.

And in keeping with the information asymmetry theme, I can't see how this could be feasibly implemented. If everyone agreed to an entirely transparent society, it only takes a single agent to exploit the system by keeping secrets anyway. There would have to be absurdly harsh disincentives for defecting in order to keep the system pareto optimal.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#63

Post by panzi »

I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program. And fundamentalists of any religion would like to know who exactly is breaking which one of their arbitrary rules and where they live, when their kids go to school etc. Pedophile offenders would like to know when which child is home alone etc.

Privacy has a purpose, damn it!

These are extreme cases, but they still are about the privacy of people. The article mentioned good less extreme examples.

Just who you are voting for is already something you have to hide (in general). If you wouldn't have a right for secret elections you could be forced to vote for a certain candidate or your vote could be bought.

Yes, the governments keep things secret that shouldn't be secret (e.g. contracts/agreements with other countries, i.e. how the big countries fuck the little ones). There is a saying: use public data, protect private data. In German: Öffentliche Daten nützen, private Daten schützen. (it rhymes)

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#64

Post by Zancarius »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #53
Zancarius wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a strange sense, in particular when reading the article, I'm reminded of a certain Orwellian utopia in which there was virtually no extant privacy. Maybe it "facilitates lying," although I think that's a rather extremist view, but if there's information I'm not willing to provide you, I may not necessarily be lying--I just don't feel that it's pertinent or necessary for you to know. Or in particularly pathological…

Or it could be that those that eliminate privacy are those malevolent actors ... Just saying ...

I inexplicably feel compelled to chant "Big Brother!"

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#65

Post by [deleted] »

prawn wrote: post #61
notahacker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other reason he can be so flippant is that he's an ex-Mormon who walked out on his family and church because he'd taken up sleeping around and atheism, so from his point of view the worst damage to his social standing has already been inflicted.

Do you really "take up atheism" or do you just not go to church, etc? I don't feel like I've taken it up, it's just not something I worry about or act on. Rest of your point stands, obviously.

[deleted]

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#66

Post by conradfr »

1/ I don't trust extremists like him. It seems to me they are usually the ones who moves from cause to cause way too easily leaving everyone behind, or fight their "daemons" by putting the blame and the burden on the whole society.

2/ "Zero is still the amount of times I've killed someone, robbed someone, raped someone, taken illicit drugs, or even had alcohol or other substances,"

So that what being virtuous is for him, not society as a whole.

3/ "He thinks most of us would live more ethically too."

That paragraph is scary. He needs people to watch him to behave better ? While telling us that becoming a non-believer felt liberating regarding his sexuality ?

4/ Reducing privacy to a power tool for the elite is ludicrous. He confuses transparency with no privacy. He also ignores lots of things about human psychology and sociology.

5/ I was disappointed that the reporter didn't checked his Google search history.

6/ You don't need $300,000 and a crew. You only need webcams, Gopro and Google Glasses.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#67

Post by infectoid »

deskglass wrote: post #40
namuorg wrote: post #22

For anyone who's curious what a world in which everyone is forced to throw away their privacy and embrace complete transparency might look like, Dave Eggers wrote a fantastic book called The Circle ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Circle-Dave-Eggers/dp/0385351399 ) that explores that very concept. Highly recommended.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check that book out. Once, in thread similar to this one, I saw another recommendation for The Light of Other Days ( http://smile.amazon.com/Light-Other-Days-Arthur-Clarke-ebook... . It explores a world where everyone can see and hear everyone else at any (past and present) time. While I did not always find the plot compelling, I still enjoyed reading it because it explores some co…

What I found most interesting about the story was when a character was confronted by the factual truth of a past event that didn't agree with what she strongly believed to be true. There is no room for objection as you can view all past (and present) events as they really happened.

But your comments are accurate. While, not always compelling, the concepts are pretty cool to indulge in.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#68

Post by CocaKoala »

wamatt wrote: post #11

FYI, he's doing a Kickstarter to raise awareness and funding: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/noahdyer/a-year-without... Philosophically speaking, the idea of a society where every actioned is monitored, recorded and made available, is a potentially interesting thought experiment. That said, I find it rather difficult to feel too excited, for this specific campaign.

>What about the privacy of your kids? >My kids don't have anything to hide.

Did his kids say that, or is he saying that for them?

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#69

Post by namuorg »

namuorg wrote: post #22

For anyone who's curious what a world in which everyone is forced to throw away their privacy and embrace complete transparency might look like, Dave Eggers wrote a fantastic book called The Circle ( http://www.amazon.com/The-Circle-Dave-Eggers/dp/0385351399 ) that explores that very concept. Highly recommended.

I should add that the story is especially appropriate for the HN crowd because the privacy-less world is realized by a Google-like tech company that decides that complete transparency via omnipresent recording devices would lead to a healthier society. The arguments made by Noah in the article are identical to those used by the tech company in the book.

Re: This Man Has Nothing to Hide – Not Even His Email Password

#70

Post by munin »

panzi wrote: post #63

I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program. And fundamentalists of any religion would like to know who exactly is breaking which one of their arbitrary rules and where they live, when their kids go to school etc. Pedophile offenders would like to know when which child is home alone etc. Privacy has a purpose, damn it! These are extreme cases, but they still are about the privacy of people…

> I'm sure the mafia would love the end of the witness protection program.

if there was truly no privacy, then the Mafia would cease to exist.

think this through.

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