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Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

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161–170 of 267 posts

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#161
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ryanair don't do that. The price they advertise at the flight choice time is the price you pay. THey then try shove extras down your throat, but you're not obligated to buy travel insurance, rent a car, use their jet ski etc .

The £2 fare, £45 processing fee example was a RyanAir tactic (although the internet seems to remember it as £1/£65, based on a quick google search).

Oh I know it used to be, but It's changed now was what I was saying!

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#162

I'm surprised how hard it is for me to think of a case where including some extra by default makes sense for both the seller and customer. My initial reaction was a mixture of happiness about combatting hidden charges and suspicion that it might rule out some reasonable practices. I opt out of the sandwich drink and chips combo at a lot of restaurants, but most other patrons like it. But after mulling it over, I can'…

That's a reasonable worry. You never do notice things that are working correctly, because they are working correctly.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I hope they will finally have to label them correctly. When I booked flights to Dublin recently, I felt being cheated on even though I checked everything twice and googled some. The insurance trick is among the worst practices I had to encounter personally. I'd prefer to have the official prices being hones even if they are somewhat higher. Their business model of offering only the minimal thing should work…

> When I booked flights to Dublin recently, I felt being cheated on even though I checked everything twice and googled some. Why on earth would you do business with a company that makes you " cheated"? RyanAir ran off all of the other airlines? They had the only flight to Dublin to see your poor, sick mother? Flights so cheap that you're willing to put up with the bullshit? It's an honest question, and I've heard som…

> Why on earth would you do business with a company that makes you " cheated"?

Because everyone bitches about them but everyone still uses them, since after all, they are the cheapest. They just like to hurl rocks from the top of the mountain without actually doing anything productive about it - i.e. taking their money elsewhere.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#164
>The “sneak into basket” pattern is now illegal. Full stop, end of story. You cannot create a situation where additional items and services are added by default.

active.com is a horrible offender. If you sign up for an event, you are automatically enrolled in their $60/year subscription fee - which they don't charge for until a month later.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#165
I am not sure this attempt at legislating good behavior will have much effect. Too often these things are easier for the bad guy to ignore than for the individual to prosecute. I've wondered for a while if there was a way of creating some sort of "Small Claims Court as a service" system that would not overly benefit cranks. Something where you could mail in a complain with attached details and have the prosecution engine just run through it. Someone gets a bunch of these and it upgrades to class action or something. The downside (and reason I've not done something like this yet) is that it also enables bullies and malicious prosecution. It is quite a challenging system (weirdly with many parallels in game design where you're trying to keep opponent factions "balanced")

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#166
post #3

Sounds like an excellent law to stop the horrid practices in so many online shops. Let's hope a form of this law spreads throughout Europe and the U.S. This caught my eye, however: "A failure to comply cancels the transaction. You can get your money back and keep the goods. If the sale was for a service or a digital download, the contract is cancelled and no further payments are due." Wow. Seems like it would make a…

The part about keeping the goods seems unbelievable. I've skimmed the act, but I can't find a reference to keeping the goods.

It's very easy to link to sections in acts, so I don't know why the author did not add references.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#167
post #106
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anarchy doesn't really exist. It's just that people want to go back to a state before the current contracts and laws were passed. What would happen? The same kinds of associations, rules, and laws would form again.

Anarcho-collectivists, which as far as I understand, represents the dominant modern anarchistic philosophy, examine alternative methods to central government for generating laws. So they don't argue for an unregulated society - which is obviously a non-starter under the lens of reality - or a return to pre-government, but rather a complete replacement of the law-making mechanism. Basically, they're all over complexit…

Do you have any links to writings on this (Anarcho-collectivism from a complexity perspective or vice-versa)? Did both a quick journal search and a Google search and didn't find much.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#168

I am not sure this attempt at legislating good behavior will have much effect. Too often these things are easier for the bad guy to ignore than for the individual to prosecute. I've wondered for a while if there was a way of creating some sort of "Small Claims Court as a service" system that would not overly benefit cranks. Something where you could mail in a complain with attached details and have the prosecution en…

Filing a small courts claim in the UK is really, really easy, doesn't require a lawyer, and actually favours the little guy. I don't think we really need a SCSAAS system.

Historically, legislating this kind of behaviour has had a very big effect in the UK. We have strict trading and advertising standards and by and large people adhere to them. Companies that frequently flout the rules tend to get in more trouble once a journalist or watchdog gets wind of it and makes a big stink.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#169
post #47
post #9

I wonder why there seem to be no companies that use "not being cheating bastards" as a marketing advantage. I'd gladly pay more to buy from a shop that emphasizes transparency and fairness.

Isn't this basically what Amazon does? I've always felt very comfortable and safe when pushing the buy button on their site.

Here's my Amazon challenge: Find a phone charger on Amazon that:

* Isn't one of Amazon's own * Doesn't have a single review saying it caught fire or exploded

Amazon is completely happy selling poor quality or even counterfeit goods, phone chargers are a particularly bad area of the site but others exist as well. There is no way Amazon could claim ignorance of this - there are 100s of reviews on some products such as "Samsung" chargers saying they are fake. Amazon cares more about their bottom line than 1) complying with British law when it comes to product descriptions 2) complying with EU safety laws 3) the safety of their customers.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#170
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There are loads. I can think of several companies that I buy things from because I know I won't get messed with even if the headline price might appear a little higher than their competitors (think EasyJet v.s. RyanAir).

From my relatively small experience I remember EasyJet trying to upsell random crap in a similar way to RyanAir. I might be misremembering though, I haven't flew with any of them since last year. Anyway, I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name".

Easyjet have an upsell but at least the price you see on the homepage is the price you pay at the end, unless you go for the upsell. It's predictable.
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