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Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

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Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#111

Post by tormeh »

Someone1234 wrote: post #105
pdpi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that it's increasingly the case that "Europe" gets used in place of EU in much the same way as people will say "America" when they mean the USA.

Then people are "increasingly" using it incorrectly. Europe is a continent, the EU is a political alliance. There are too many countries within Europe but not in the EU to use the terms synonymously. For example: Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Vatican City I think…

Yes, but a lot of those have strong bilateral ties to the EU. Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway are part of the EEA, which means that this becomes law there. Switzerland has a ton of bilateral agreements, so this law should be expected there as well. Monaco, Mentenegro and San Marino have Association Agreements as well. The EU's reach is a bit bigger than it looks like.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#112

Post by avar »

Someone1234 wrote: post #105
pdpi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that it's increasingly the case that "Europe" gets used in place of EU in much the same way as people will say "America" when they mean the USA.

Then people are "increasingly" using it incorrectly. Europe is a continent, the EU is a political alliance. There are too many countries within Europe but not in the EU to use the terms synonymously. For example: Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Vatican City I think…

For what it's worth when talking about things like consumer regulations talking about the EU is often not the most descriptive term, I'm not 100% sure about this topic but I'm fairly sure this applies to the entirety of the EEA, which is the EU + Iceland + Norway + Liechtenstein.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#113

Post by TeMPOraL »

rtb wrote: post #80
TeMPOraL wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my relatively small experience I remember EasyJet trying to upsell random crap in a similar way to RyanAir. I might be misremembering though, I haven't flew with any of them since last year. Anyway, I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name".

> I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name". Probably because they can't name them in the ads, which would make the message rather confusing :-)

Well, if the other company is doing something bad, it wouldn't be difficult. Actually, to provide some sort of an answer to my original question, we had sort-of this style of marketing with domain registrar, i.e. "hey, we don't try to upsell you crap, don't support SOPA and definitely don't shoot elephants for fun!".

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#114

Post by tormeh »

lutusp wrote: post #102
tormeh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Friendly relations is a prerequisite for compromise which is a prerequisite for progress. Lots of parties have friendly relations without society collapsing. Your belief is very ignorant and US-centric.

> Friendly relations is a prerequisite for compromise which is a prerequisite for progress. Ask a professional diplomat whether this idea is true. Israelis and Palestinians achieve compromises all the time -- they're fragile and short-lived, but they're certainly compromises. Unions and management come to compromises regularly, after sometimes bloody demonstrations (in the early days of the organized labor movement).…

Dude, those are really good examples! I will reconsider my opinion immediately! Not. How do you even write that shit with a straight face?

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#115

Post by lutusp »

tormeh wrote: post #114
lutusp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Friendly relations is a prerequisite for compromise which is a prerequisite for progress. Ask a professional diplomat whether this idea is true. Israelis and Palestinians achieve compromises all the time -- they're fragile and short-lived, but they're certainly compromises. Unions and management come to compromises regularly, after sometimes bloody demonstrations (in the early days of the organized labor movement).…

Dude, those are really good examples! I will reconsider my opinion immediately! Not. How do you even write that shit with a straight face?

Which of the uncontroversial historical facts I posted is causing you the most personal anguish?

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#116

Post by lutusp »

coriny wrote: post #110
lutusp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Friendly relations is a prerequisite for compromise which is a prerequisite for progress. Ask a professional diplomat whether this idea is true. Israelis and Palestinians achieve compromises all the time -- they're fragile and short-lived, but they're certainly compromises. Unions and management come to compromises regularly, after sometimes bloody demonstrations (in the early days of the organized labor movement).…

Though I think he is correct that politics does not need to be antagonistic to prevent "politicians running rampant with power". Plenty of democracies use more collaborative politics than the USA (e.g. the Polder model of democracy in the netherlands). And I think most people would agree that the US republicans & democrats could engage more constructively while maintaining ideologically distinct positions (and not tu…

> I think most people would agree that the US republicans & democrats could engage more constructively while maintaining ideologically distinct positions ...

Yes, absolutely. My point was that compromise doesn't require that the parties share values or show mutual respect -- history proves otherwise.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#117

Post by TeMPOraL »

Someone1234 wrote: post #105
pdpi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that it's increasingly the case that "Europe" gets used in place of EU in much the same way as people will say "America" when they mean the USA.

Then people are "increasingly" using it incorrectly. Europe is a continent, the EU is a political alliance. There are too many countries within Europe but not in the EU to use the terms synonymously. For example: Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Vatican City I think…

> Then people are "increasingly" using it incorrectly. Europe is a continent, the EU is a political alliance.

Well, it's exactly the same as with America (the continent) and United States (a country). You can either argue that both calling EU Europe and USA America is wrong and we should stop, or accept that in both cases, people can figure things out from the context.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#119

Post by icebraining »

seabee wrote: post #74
icebraining wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This shouldn't need specific regulations, they should be treated as plain fraud by small claim courts. This just underlines the brokenness of the system.

Unless case law is created in the small claims court, having specific regulations for things which normally end up there is very beneficial for consumers. It gives you a tool to fight the disease - the company committing fraud - rather than treating symptoms by settling in small claims court with anyone who cared enough to bring it there.

It gives you a tool to fight the disease - the company committing fraud

In what way, exactly? And why couldn't that be done if the behavior was simply considered fraud, which is should obviously be?

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#120

Post by tormeh »

lutusp wrote: post #115
tormeh wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, those are really good examples! I will reconsider my opinion immediately! Not. How do you even write that shit with a straight face?

Which of the uncontroversial historical facts I posted is causing you the most personal anguish?

My problem is that while they fit the literal definition of compromise, they don't really achieve much. Those are barely ceasefires, and not much progress. So compromise without friendly relations does exist, it just really really sucks. The spirit of my criticism still stands.
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