Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

90percentofeverything.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 267 posts

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#21

Post by DSMan195276 »

techmatters wrote: post #7

"A failure to comply cancels the transaction. You can get your money back and keep the goods. If the sale was for a service or a digital download, the contract is cancelled and no further payments are due." I would think that, under contract law, you get your money back and you return the goods - that would be cancelling the transaction. Likewise for digital downloads or services. Can anyone explain why the provider…

I don't claim to know for sure, but it seems to me like the reason for that is because all of these laws are restrictions are companies trying to do shady stuff to sell you more then what you wanted. Allowing the person purchasing the goods to keep them as well as get money back encourages companies to not break these laws since they don't want to lose their stuff. If they got their goods back then there really wouldn't be any repercussions toward the company for breaking these laws since the transactions would (presumably) be cancel-able within a specific time-frame already.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#23

Post by PeterisP »

techmatters wrote: post #7

"A failure to comply cancels the transaction. You can get your money back and keep the goods. If the sale was for a service or a digital download, the contract is cancelled and no further payments are due." I would think that, under contract law, you get your money back and you return the goods - that would be cancelling the transaction. Likewise for digital downloads or services. Can anyone explain why the provider…

I'd say that this is explicitly meant as a punishment to disincentivize such actions. Completely canceling the transaction just undoes the damage, and only if it places zero burden on the consumer - no shipping costs nor effort, which is unlikely.

This may come out as a 'double refund', but in generally accepted practice, paying triple of the dishonestly earned amount is also often considered an reasonable measure just as a penalty.

Otherwise if half of the cheated consumers complain and get their money back, and half don't notice it, then it's still a net win for a shady company and an incentive to continue such activities, contrary to the explicit goal of this legislation.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#24

Post by maxbrown »

suvelx wrote: post #19

> As a part of that, retailer fees and surcharges must be brought out into the open and explained. Retailers can no longer charge “processing fees” in excess of what it actually costs them. Does that mean charging me to print out my own ticket is now illegal? Because it certainly doesn't cost 2 quid to generate a pdf.

They may be able to frame this as an additional service, not a processing fee, as there are alternatives to the (essentially free and clearly much more convenient) print-at-home option.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#25

Post by TeMPOraL »

rtb wrote: post #14
TeMPOraL wrote: post #9

I wonder why there seem to be no companies that use "not being cheating bastards" as a marketing advantage. I'd gladly pay more to buy from a shop that emphasizes transparency and fairness.

Huh? There are loads. I can think of several companies that I buy things from because I know I won't get messed with even if the headline price might appear a little higher than their competitors (think EasyJet v.s. RyanAir).

From my relatively small experience I remember EasyJet trying to upsell random crap in a similar way to RyanAir. I might be misremembering though, I haven't flew with any of them since last year.

Anyway, I meant why there are no companies with marketing messages that would amount to "we're not going to fuck you over like the Other Company We Can't Name".

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#26

Post by eli »

skynetv2 wrote: post #22

when will the US adopt a similar law? Ticketmaster will be first one to go bonkers if this law ever makes it to the US

I'm more annoyed by telecom, internet and other utilities that add fees for "regulatory compliance" or for other costs that the provider had to pay.

If you want to pass your costs on to your customers that's fine, but then raise your prices. Don't advertise a fake, unobtainable low price and then add fees disguised as government mandates.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#27

Post by nodata »

raverbashing wrote: post #15
jiggy2011 wrote: post #4

I wonder what effect this will have on ryanair ticket prices? As I understand it the tickets themselves are not profitable, it's the extras.

A lot of extras are sold on the plane or at checkin (like 60EUR for a boarding pass) That's why I never fly with them. Too much BS to waddle through.

What's the 60 EUR for? Printing your boarding pass?

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#28

Post by PeterisP »

spindritf wrote: post #12

Financial services are exempt under the Directive Great. Let's take all the downside of heavy regulation but give up most of the upside.

Financial services had quite a lot of such things regulated multiple years earlier under different EU directives, for example the Payment Services Directive that covers common payments, credit cards and direct debits; and introduced some nice rights for the consumers.

There are many specific things that don't make any sense for goods but rely on the particular nuances of specific financial products, so they are regulated separately, not within this directive.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the current financial services regulation is competely done and doesn't need further improvement for consumer rights, but it should be expected to be done separately, in domain-specific legislation.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#29

Post by malka »

suvelx wrote: post #19

> As a part of that, retailer fees and surcharges must be brought out into the open and explained. Retailers can no longer charge “processing fees” in excess of what it actually costs them. Does that mean charging me to print out my own ticket is now illegal? Because it certainly doesn't cost 2 quid to generate a pdf.

you pay for the ink and they charge you even more.

Re: Some Dark Patterns Now Illegal in UK

#30

Post by Pxtl »

Someone1234 wrote: post #5
epaga wrote: post #3

Sounds like an excellent law to stop the horrid practices in so many online shops. Let's hope a form of this law spreads throughout Europe and the U.S. This caught my eye, however: "A failure to comply cancels the transaction. You can get your money back and keep the goods. If the sale was for a service or a digital download, the contract is cancelled and no further payments are due." Wow. Seems like it would make a…

It is a good idea, but in practice getting them to return your money before you return the goods might involve a small claims court. This directive actually has a lot less "teeth" than you'd think from reading this article. It is good that it exists, but aside from class action style lawsuits, few companies will get hit by individual customers seeking refunds+goods.

Perhaps including the credit cart "dispute charges" process into this discussion would help?
Post reply on HN